Hacker News Board Hacker News, browsed like a classic message board
Live data from Hacker News

Windows 8 Release Preview ready for download

windows.microsoft.com

Post reply on HN
Print view View original

81–90 of 94 posts

Re: Windows 8 Release Preview ready for download

#81

Post by blvr »

9999 wrote: post #34
melling wrote: post #7

Earlier quoted context omitted.

It'll ship on almost 90% of desktop PC's and there are millions of ageing PC's running XP that have to be near the end of their useful life. In short, how big of a flop could it be?

The potential for a big flop is that instead of buying a PC to replace that aging XP box, the customer will just buy an iPad.

People are moving to smart phones and tablets anyway. Not because Windows has changed too much, just because they're easier and more convenient.And that's why we have Metro: if Microsoft doesn't follow their customers they're going to lose them.

Re: Windows 8 Release Preview ready for download

#82

Post by polshaw »

jjcm wrote: post #30
lubos wrote: post #3

This OS might be the biggest Microsoft flop ever. There are just way too many fundamental changes which are not proven to be actually better. I would rather see new Metro UI as another full-screen app to see if it can stand on its own before they go all-in with it. Something similar to what Microsoft did with Windows 3.10 which was basically another DOS program. I guess, Microsoft is being run by different folks toda…

Disagree. It will be the biggest investment in research Microsoft has placed in the mainstream market to date. Windows 8 is effectively a research project. Microsoft wants to know and understand how people will be using different modalities in their everyday work. Windows 8 will have huge issues, no doubt, but Microsoft will learn enormous amounts from it. Metro is a smart move - window chrome is unnecessary, and tak…

I believe the windows 8 naysayers will be proved very wrong, people will come to love windows 8, at least on the desktop. Take the start screen.. people are struggling to come to terms with it, but conceptionally it is so much better.

Take the current start menu-- what are the usability problems? -- nested folders, stuff like uninstallers squatting there, small mouse target. The new start screen tackles all these issues, whist still keeping the keyboard/search support (what most here have been doing since vista no doubt). Why should the start area not fill the screen? Similarly, there is no point in a little windows logo/button bottom left.

Re: Windows 8 Release Preview ready for download

#83

Post by arihant »

baby wrote: post #70
arihant wrote: post #12

I do not understand the skepticism against Windows 8, specially from the hacker community. The only reason I do not use a Windows computer (anymore) is because there are so few ways to build things on it, compared to a Mac. I remember back in the day when I used Windows exclusively because Visual Studio was the only way to do build awesome things fast. With Windows 8, MS has brought back those days. Developing for Me…

> I do not use a Windows computer (anymore) is because there are so few ways to build things on it, compared to a Mac. I'm using Windows to build things and I don't have any problems. More than that I remember having issues when I was on a mac (Sony Vegas). Care to explain what you can do with a mac you cannot do with a PC?

Mac - Unix + Cocoa + iOS + Android + Web

Windows - Android + Web

Also, all my web servers are unix based. Having a unix based local machine behooves me.

Re: Windows 8 Release Preview ready for download

#84

Post by teyc »

compteHN wrote: post #59
teyc wrote: post #54

Windows 8 is an interesting release from a historical standpoint. Microsoft has been a long proponent of preserving APIs. Just as Windows95 supported DOS, and WinNT supported Win32 APIs. Windows 8 is a totally different beast. It's a new API, not even .NET, that's built on an existing OS. As such, it is more like Android, which is a mobile phone API built on top of Linux. In many ways, programmers are discouraged fro…

> Windows 8 is a totally different beast. It's a new API, not even .NET, that's built on an existing OS. As such, it is more like Android, which is a mobile phone API built on top of Linux. You need to make a distinction between WOA (Windows RT) and Windows 8 on x86. Windows RT is a different beast yes in that developers will only have access to the WinRT API, but no restrictions are in place on the x86 version of Wi…

The problem I see is that the WinRT API sits side by side with Win32. There is no intermixing.

You'd either program to one or the other. Sure you can run WinRT on the desktop. WinRT is so sandboxed it is worse than virtualizing XP on Windows 7. From a political standpoint, I can see the Windows 8 server people sneering at the team from Windows Mobile who have managed to sneak their toy OS into a heavy duty operating system. They are putting up with these kids for a while, but they will be booted out at the first sign of failure.

I see this as a hedged bet. If WinRT ends up as a market failure, they'll potentially abandon WinRT. After all, it will be like ditching a bit of Windows Mobile code in a proper OS. The whole thing is so cut down that WinRT is best thought of as a presentation layer and little else.

Re: Windows 8 Release Preview ready for download

#85

Post by blvr »

commandar wrote: post #77
powertower wrote: post #65

I'll tell you why this OS will be the biggest Microsoft success ever... Most consumers can be clueless, attention deficient, instant-gratification seeking, work/knowledge averse ... or can just want something simple. A lot don't even understand the concept of the file-system (let alone the other 95% of Windows). A lot can't even download a picture from a camera's memory card and place it into the proper folder after…

I actually think W8 is ultimately going to be a disaster for Microsoft because it's so consumer-focused. Microsoft has been a juggernaut for the past decade because of the enterprise. Part of the reason for this are technologies like Active Directory and Exchange built on top on the Windows stack. Another big part of it are enterprise applications that are also built on top of that stack. Windows RT (aka Windows on A…

Windows RT is just for dedicated tablets. It's for iPad competitors, basically.

Proper PCs will continue to use Windows 8 for x86, which will still have Active Directory, etc.

Re: Windows 8 Release Preview ready for download

#86

Post by gaelian »

sliverstorm wrote: post #36
lubos wrote: post #19

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I'm not bashing Microsoft. Windows is my primary platform, all I'm saying is that I'm disappointed at how radical Microsoft is becoming. 99.9999% of applications for Windows are not going to look like Metro apps including flagship products like MS Office. So Metro is going to get in the way most of the time. I'm not sure what desktop users should really appreciate about Windows 8.

I'm disappointed at how radical Microsoft is becoming. This makes me laugh. It was not long ago, not long ago at all, everybody was complaining about how old-fashioned and unresponsive Microsoft was being.

Exactly. I would rather see them err on the side of radicalism at this point.

I have primarily been a Mac user for the last couple of years (whenever I have a choice about it), but I'd love to see MS start making its self more relevant again. I feel the consumers (i.e. my) interestes are best served when progress from the tech giants are spurred on by their competition. Not when a single platform has the majority of mind share in terms of perceived innovation.

Re: Windows 8 Release Preview ready for download

#87

Post by commandar »

blvr wrote: post #85
commandar wrote: post #77

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I actually think W8 is ultimately going to be a disaster for Microsoft because it's so consumer-focused. Microsoft has been a juggernaut for the past decade because of the enterprise. Part of the reason for this are technologies like Active Directory and Exchange built on top on the Windows stack. Another big part of it are enterprise applications that are also built on top of that stack. Windows RT (aka Windows on A…

Windows RT is just for dedicated tablets. It's for iPad competitors, basically. Proper PCs will continue to use Windows 8 for x86, which will still have Active Directory, etc.

>Windows RT is basically just for dedicated tablets. It's for iPad competitors, basically.

i.e., the exact devices that users want software support for.

So as an ISV, do you rewrite to target Windows RT tablets or just go web app and target all tablets? You'll have to do some level of rewrite either way.

As an IT department, if you're going to give up device management to support tablets, is it preferable to be tied down to Windows-based tablets or does it make more sense to choose a solution that works on any tablet and be done with it?

That's the problem I see Microsoft facing. Sure, W8 x86 still works like before, but the tablet market is a new space where there's definite user demand and Microsoft just doesn't seem to have a good answer to it.

Re: Windows 8 Release Preview ready for download

#88

Post by dpark »

glhaynes wrote: post #68
brudgers wrote: post #52

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> "Apple made the bet that there's a fundamental difference between the mobile experience and the desktop experience." It's a bet they may have gotten wrong from a technical debt standpoint.

What do you mean?

Assume Windows 8 turns out to be a massive success. Suddenly everyone expects the same apps to run on their tablets and their desktops. Everyone expects to have proper multi-user support on their tablets, full productivity suites on ARM, and the option of buying an ARM laptop with 10+ hours of battery life. They expect these things because Windows 8 proved them possible.

Now what does Apple do? They've bet on single-user tablets, Intel laptops (with better-than-average but still not great) battery life, separate tablet and desktop ecosystems, and tablets that have only basic productivity apps. How do they bridge this gap and pay this debt?

I think Windows 8 is a very nice platform, and though it has some quirks, I think if people try it they will love it. I'm a Microsoft employee, though, so I'm probably biased.

Re: Windows 8 Release Preview ready for download

#89

Post by dpark »

emehrkay wrote: post #32
WrkInProgress wrote: post #26

Here's an official video/ad that highlights some of the ways people will use Windows 8 in Microsoft's eyes. http://windows.microsoft.com/en-US/windows-8/release-preview

That looks pretty cool. I wonder how easy its going to be for people to discover the gestures because they seem to be so different than Android/ios. That swipe from the edge is going to be a hard one to learn/commit to muscle memory. it looked like that kid wasnt really doing that stuff on his screen.

Why is "swipe from edge" hard to learn? This is one of my favorite things about Windows 8, because in hindsight it's so obvious.

Disclaimer: MSFT employee

Re: Windows 8 Release Preview ready for download

#90

Post by petitmiam »

methodin wrote: post #67

Have they addressed the need to explain how to do something yet (getting to desktop or back to metro view)? That's really the biggest killer on any app that would theoretically be adopted by the masses.

I think you're spot on. It took me awhile to figure out what was what, and I'm not sure everyone has as much patience as me.
Post reply on HN