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Windows 8 Release Preview ready for download

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Re: Windows 8 Release Preview ready for download

#51

Post by brudgers »

lubos wrote: post #19
billpatrianakos wrote: post #10

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Oh boy, here comes the obligatory HN-contrarianism and knee-jerk Microsoft bashing. I dislike Microsoft, in particular, Windows, as much as the next guy but you can't just throw out blanket statements like that with nothing to support them. Why will this be such a flop? Are you maybe exaggerating? If it is because of the fundamental changes you mention? Which ones in particular and how are they not proven to be bette…

I'm not bashing Microsoft. Windows is my primary platform, all I'm saying is that I'm disappointed at how radical Microsoft is becoming. 99.9999% of applications for Windows are not going to look like Metro apps including flagship products like MS Office. So Metro is going to get in the way most of the time. I'm not sure what desktop users should really appreciate about Windows 8.

>"I'm not sure what desktop users should really appreciate about Windows 8."

Apps.

Re: Windows 8 Release Preview ready for download

#52

Post by brudgers »

anextio wrote: post #39
flyt wrote: post #9

Earlier quoted context omitted.

This OS might be the biggest Apple flop ever. There are just way too many fundamental changes which are not proven to be actually better. I would rather see new iOS touch UI as another full-screen app to see if it can stand on its own before they go all-in with it. Something similar to what Apple did with Classic which was basically another pre-OS X program. I guess, Apple is being run by different folks today.

Apple made the bet that there's a fundamental difference between the mobile experience and the desktop experience. They didn't replace OS X with iOS, they each exist as expressions of a different type of computing, for different purposes. Microsoft are attempting to provide one system as a single expression of both types of paradigm, and this is why the jury is out on Windows 8.

>"Apple made the bet that there's a fundamental difference between the mobile experience and the desktop experience."

It's a bet they may have gotten wrong from a technical debt standpoint.

Re: Windows 8 Release Preview ready for download

#53

Post by rosstafarian »

9999 wrote: post #34
melling wrote: post #7

Earlier quoted context omitted.

It'll ship on almost 90% of desktop PC's and there are millions of ageing PC's running XP that have to be near the end of their useful life. In short, how big of a flop could it be?

The potential for a big flop is that instead of buying a PC to replace that aging XP box, the customer will just buy an iPad.

heh funny you say that, I do some residential work on the side and lately every time i tell a customer it's time for a new laptop, a good 90% ask "what about an ipad?"

Re: Windows 8 Release Preview ready for download

#54

Post by teyc »

Windows 8 is an interesting release from a historical standpoint. Microsoft has been a long proponent of preserving APIs. Just as Windows95 supported DOS, and WinNT supported Win32 APIs. Windows 8 is a totally different beast. It's a new API, not even .NET, that's built on an existing OS. As such, it is more like Android, which is a mobile phone API built on top of Linux.

In many ways, programmers are discouraged from interacting with existing operating system services. One can't even access database drivers when writing WinRT programs. Everything is managed via web services.

So MS is not in a position of strength:

1. It is not a backwards compatible release (by necessity, due to battery life requirements)

2. It will have to create a market - i.e. ecosystem of developers and consumers

3. It has lackluster record - Windows Phone has little market share, despite being a solid OS

4. It has burned a lot of bridges and karma by abandoning their ethos of supporting old APIs. e.g. Silverlight, Windows Phone 7.5

This means that developers who take a risk with Windows 8 will find that if it tanks, they do not expect the APIs to be maintained in the future. Despite MS baking these WinRT APIs into Windows 8, they represent such a departure from desktop models that you couldn't bring those investments back to the desktop without significant work.

Meanwhile, the iPads are making deep inroads into enterprises and schools. Even if aficionados BYOD use Windows 8, MS will have to play underdogs from now on.

The only problem is - MS no longer know how to act like one.

My prediction? Lackluster adoption, massive layoffs just like HP in the next 20 months.

Re: Windows 8 Release Preview ready for download

#56

Post by DrJokepu »

megaman821 wrote: post #22
webXL wrote: post #17

Earlier quoted context omitted.

They didn't need to take away the start button, and it's going frustrate a lot of users. See: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=v4boTbv9_nU I've been running the preview in a VM, and getting back to the launcher frustrated me so much I had to install a small utility made by Stardock that makes a fake start button that takes you to the launcher: http://www.stardock.com/products/start8/ . I'm a Mac guy, but my job require…

It seems that the only people who click the start button are people who don't use Windows all the time. Commonly used apps go in the launch bar and infrequently launched apps are found by hitting the Windows key and typing the name. Nothing in Windows 8 changes that workflow for me.

I think your theory is wrong. Specifically, I use Windows for work all the time (due to Visual Studio) and I never do the typing thing. I can't even remember the name of the applications I don't use often, but I remember the icon so that's what I look for. I really don't think I'm alone with that.

Re: Windows 8 Release Preview ready for download

#58

Post by brudgers »

lubos wrote: post #3

This OS might be the biggest Microsoft flop ever. There are just way too many fundamental changes which are not proven to be actually better. I would rather see new Metro UI as another full-screen app to see if it can stand on its own before they go all-in with it. Something similar to what Microsoft did with Windows 3.10 which was basically another DOS program. I guess, Microsoft is being run by different folks toda…

>"There are just way too many fundamental changes which are not proven to be actually better."

I suspect that Microsoft has mountains of statistical data to support the statement "Metro is a better user interface."

Anecdotally, I'd agree.

How that translates into the market is of course another story. And if history is a guide, it will translate slowly just like every other operating system Microsoft has released since...well forever. In four years when Windows 9 rolls out, we'll still be hearing about people running XP (confession: my oldest laptop runs 2000 when I fire it up).

It's not a big deal for Microsoft because they don't really make money by breaking old hardware via an OS push on a three year cycle like Apple does. Their big money comes from stable relationships with enterprise with manufacturers and their business model supports supporting legacy systems.

BTW, there's no way to top Clippy.

Re: Windows 8 Release Preview ready for download

#59

Post by compteHN »

teyc wrote: post #54

Windows 8 is an interesting release from a historical standpoint. Microsoft has been a long proponent of preserving APIs. Just as Windows95 supported DOS, and WinNT supported Win32 APIs. Windows 8 is a totally different beast. It's a new API, not even .NET, that's built on an existing OS. As such, it is more like Android, which is a mobile phone API built on top of Linux. In many ways, programmers are discouraged fro…

> Windows 8 is a totally different beast. It's a new API, not even .NET, that's built on an existing OS. As such, it is more like Android, which is a mobile phone API built on top of Linux.

You need to make a distinction between WOA (Windows RT) and Windows 8 on x86. Windows RT is a different beast yes in that developers will only have access to the WinRT API, but no restrictions are in place on the x86 version of Windows 8. Developers still have access to the Win32 API and are NOT discouraged to use it.

Re: Windows 8 Release Preview ready for download

#60

Post by recoiledsnake »

TazeTSchnitzel wrote: post #47
debacle wrote: post #43

I have to say, they've made a ton of improvements since the last release. I'm still not super happy with it (and it still feels like Vista) but it's definitely taken many steps ahead. I still don't think anyone is going to be using the metro menu. It's just not what people want from Windows. Edit: Wait, nevermind, I got it to crash within fifteen minutes. Apparently if you remove a tile from metro while moving it to…

So much for a release preview...

Isn't the whole point of a preview that users run it and find and report errors? Otherwise why not just go RTM?
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