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Apple signs deal with OpenAI for iOS, still wants Google as an 'option'

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Re: Apple signs deal with OpenAI for iOS, still wants Google as an 'option'

#71

Post by peebeebee »

matwood wrote: post #66
ARandomerDude wrote: post #19

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Ah yes, just what we’ve all been craving: even more Microsoft.

Yeah, interesting world where people are wanting MS to make a phone...again.

The Lumia phones were great. The first iterations of the OS tried to integrate 3rd party services deeply into the OS. (News, Social, Mail, Calendar aggregations) But the service-providers did not like that because: no advertising possibilities.

Then they had to shift towards apps, but at that time they were way too late.

If ARM matures, I could see a new Windows Phone.

Re: Apple signs deal with OpenAI for iOS, still wants Google as an 'option'

#72

Post by detourdog »

roydivision wrote: post #26
scubadude wrote: post #9

I guess unfortunately Apple has no choice but to include bullshit AI in it's products and services or look like they have been left behind.

Came to say the same. My gut tells me they wouldn't go anywhere near this unless they were concerned to be seen not getting on the bandwagon. It is worrying that "AI" (read silly LLM toys) has become so prevalent that they need to do this.

I just noticed the other day that my photos have a Siri tag which auto identifies plants. Voice memos doesn't identify bird songs.

Re: Apple signs deal with OpenAI for iOS, still wants Google as an 'option'

#73

Post by detourdog »

SOLAR_FIELDS wrote: post #4
whimsicalism wrote: post #2

I doubt Google and Apple have the relationship of trust such that they could actually sell Apple an API that would be used to power a core iOS service.

The article rightfully points out that Apple had Google Maps for several years on the device before launching their own maps service. I suspect that it will be treated more like search and not have the deep integrations with core API’s that their own eventual Ai offering will have. And of course when they do launch their own AI offering integration with the core API’s will probably be one of the big differentiators

I think it will be like middle-ware one choices their model by radio button. Apple may have a default model that they manage but a user could switch to various models based on whim.

Re: Apple signs deal with OpenAI for iOS, still wants Google as an 'option'

#74

Post by dplgk »

detourdog wrote: post #73
SOLAR_FIELDS wrote: post #4

Earlier quoted context omitted.

The article rightfully points out that Apple had Google Maps for several years on the device before launching their own maps service. I suspect that it will be treated more like search and not have the deep integrations with core API’s that their own eventual Ai offering will have. And of course when they do launch their own AI offering integration with the core API’s will probably be one of the big differentiators

I think it will be like middle-ware one choices their model by radio button. Apple may have a default model that they manage but a user could switch to various models based on whim.

Apple doesn't typically offer options to the user like this. They'll decide if what's best for the given context.

Re: Apple signs deal with OpenAI for iOS, still wants Google as an 'option'

#75

Post by jafo1989 »

cjk2 wrote: post #44
nmeagent wrote: post #34

There had better be an option to disable any and all LLM tendrils in iOS or I'm going to probably end up throwing my iPhone into a lake. Call me a luddite or neo-amish or whatever, but IMO the entire feature set is cursed and I want nothing to do with it.

I don't think it is cursed yet . Apple seem to be taking a very conservative approach to the whole AI and LLM thing and are externalising it to OpenAI so they can cast it off if it turns out to be a pile of crap. Where they are investing heavily is in some of the local on-device ML stuff which actually looks vaguely useful. And it's all standard classification, image processing and summarising stuff. All viable, not…

Don't be evil (yet).

Re: Apple signs deal with OpenAI for iOS, still wants Google as an 'option'

#76

Post by doublerabbit »

m463 wrote: post #37
nmeagent wrote: post #34

There had better be an option to disable any and all LLM tendrils in iOS or I'm going to probably end up throwing my iPhone into a lake. Call me a luddite or neo-amish or whatever, but IMO the entire feature set is cursed and I want nothing to do with it.

You want a local LLM. honestly, I hope regulation allows sideloading and alternative apps sometime soon. We need to firewall our devices from the accelerating pace of data snarfing.

It's why my iPhone is jailbroken so I can install a firewall.

However I now stuck on 14 with no app support or upgrade to 17 and loose jailbreak and firewall.

I missed the iOS 15 signing window.

Re: Apple signs deal with OpenAI for iOS, still wants Google as an 'option'

#77

Post by detourdog »

dplgk wrote: post #74
detourdog wrote: post #73

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I think it will be like middle-ware one choices their model by radio button. Apple may have a default model that they manage but a user could switch to various models based on whim.

Apple doesn't typically offer options to the user like this. They'll decide if what's best for the given context.

You mean like search under safari?

Re: Apple signs deal with OpenAI for iOS, still wants Google as an 'option'

#78

Post by dagmx »

kalleboo wrote: post #35
dagmx wrote: post #23

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I would argue that Microsoft do not have the same brand that Apple does. So they’re much more free to pursue OpenAI partnerships regardless of how well it works. I don’t mean brand as in purely recognition, but what it means to people. Apple are held to a higher standard because of the specific identity they’ve cultivated. (Arguing the specifics of whether that’s deserved or not will be its own essay so I’m leaving t…

You can see this even with Google vs Microsoft/OpenAI. Google had their LLM chat-bot working internally (remember the ethics guy who got fired because he was so convinced that the chatbot had a soul?), but they clearly thought that the level of hallucinations at the time would be bad publicity as all the news would be "Google's chatbot spews nonsense!". But OpenAI and Bing had nothing to lose, they could launch them…

Yeah the Google vs OpenAI comparison is really apt.

ChatGPT will give terrible hallucinations as well, but Google is getting lambasted right now for theirs. But even then, it’s written off as Google being Google.

If Apple did it, it would take over the tech news cycle for weeks. Personally I do think it’s better for Apple to be seen as behind in this trade off.

Re: Apple signs deal with OpenAI for iOS, still wants Google as an 'option'

#79

Post by dagmx »

qingcharles wrote: post #24
dagmx wrote: post #16

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Hallucinations would be terrible for brand appeal beyond being limited. Nobody has solved that problem yet. Just take a look at Google’s latest search results giving actively harmful information.

It can't be any worse than how bad Siri and Alexa are right now. Amazon gave me one of those Pop things recently and it was set up with the wrong zip code. I kept asking it for the weather in Chicago, every way that I could think of, but it had no idea what I was trying to ask for. The speaker is great in it, though.

It absolutely can be worse.

Right now, their limited subset of answers would be wrong in a way that is easily correctable. They fail safe.

An LLM doesn’t fail safe. It fails confidently. Correcting bad responses can be a very expensive and time consuming effort. In the meantime you get actively harmful suggestions: https://arstechnica.com/information-technology/2024/05/googl...

Alexa telling you the wrong weather is a lot less harmful than it telling you to do something that would harm you (staring at the sun, running with scissors, smoking when pregnant) or spreading political misinformation (telling you conspiracy theories).

Re: Apple signs deal with OpenAI for iOS, still wants Google as an 'option'

#80

Post by talldayo »

cqqxo4zV46cp wrote: post #55
dzhiurgis wrote: post #30

Is there going to be an option to use other model with same level integration or is it as anti-competitive as usual?

Not allowing for whatever customisation any particular nerd wants is not ‘anti-competitive’. Have you ever actually written software for public consumption? If some HN user told me that me not allowing them to swap out a dependency is anti-competitive I’d be quite within my rights to call them psychotic.

> Not allowing for whatever customisation any particular nerd wants is not ‘anti-competitive’.

This is plainly wrong. It's not inherently anticompetitive to set limits, it is anticompetitive to break those limits to promote your own product. It's quite literally one of the only formative moments of the internet, where Microsoft was rightfully sued (and nearly broken-up) for artificially blocking Netscape's market access.

Today, Apple is headed down pretty much the exact same road. I've heard apologetics insist that Tim Cook is an angel for years now, but both me and the regulatory bodies remain unconvinced. The long fall begins now, if you're an Apple customer it would be wise to plan accordingly.

> I’d be quite within my rights to call them psychotic.

You'd look like an idiot doing so, but sure you're well "within your right" to look that way. If you call someone else psychotic for paying attention to monopoly practices and wanting to make change that doesn't impact you whatsoever, then it's probably you experiencing psychosis.

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