The Effects of Early Relational Trauma (2001) [pdf] • Hacker News Board

Re: The Effects of Early Relational Trauma (2001) [pdf]

#201

Post by smeej » Sat, May 25, 2024, 10:54 AM UTC

AndrewKemendo wrote: post #200

smeej wrote: post #198

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I think the way relational trauma is understood today, at least as applied to children, is that the event breaks the person's internal sense of self and of safety. Children are SO vulnerable, and their brains understand this on a lizard level. "Those people are huge and I am very small" is obvious, even to an infant. They know, instinctively, that their parents are what stand between them and death. When a parent abu…

Very well said It’s finally recognizing that the centuries of generational interpersonal trauma that was normalized has been catastrophic for the world You have to recognize the problem before you can solve it

Would we even have an "I'm going to get mine no matter what happens to anyone or anything else, now or in the future," mindset if we all grew up with healthy attachments?

I know scarcity would still exist. It's not like better parenting would make things perfect. But I hope all the internal healing work people are trying to do is part of the necessary process to turn the tide on this as a systemic problem.

Re: The Effects of Early Relational Trauma (2001) [pdf]

#202

Post by smeej » Tue, May 28, 2024, 2:12 PM UTC

SoftTalker wrote: post #177

smeej wrote: post #163

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I think you've nailed it, and that it's subjective. I missed out on those things too, but it doesn't bother me at all, because they're not things I wanted to experience, whereas parenthood feels to me like a big loss. (I know it's not necessarily final, and there are lots of kids in the world in need of people who want to be parents. I'm not without hope that something like this is still in my future. That's not real…

Yeah but you're missing out on what you imagine parenthood is, not the reality of what it is. I'm not saying parenthood can't be great, and most of us are biologically wired to want it, but there's also a far-from-zero chance that it can be heartbreaking. If, for whatever reason, you did not get to be a parent, you can still help children in many other ways and you can still live a life of positive influence in your…

This is all true, but I think I want to be a parent even if it is heartbreaking.

I think of my own parents' experience. My brother is an addict (thankfully sober for a decade now, but it was a long journey). My sister died suddenly and with no warning when she was only 29, and she was 8 months pregnant. My parents' experience, by any account, has been devastating.

But if you ask them whether they would rather never have had my siblings at all? Not a chance. Not even the flicker of a consideration.

I don't think the actually quite high chance that it will be heartbreaking deters me from wanting it. But I also don't consider keeping my heart unbroken a priority. My heart only manages to break when I love, and I'd rather live a life full of both love and heartbreak than forego the former in hopes of avoiding the latter.

Re: The Effects of Early Relational Trauma (2001) [pdf]

#203

Post by plonk » Sat, Jun 01, 2024, 9:21 AM UTC

smeej wrote: post #99

Cthulhu_ wrote: post #80

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> I suspect he's on a pretty extreme end of a spectrum there, but that some version of that underlies a lot of trauma. I'm inclined to agree; one can attach labels to this person of "psychopath", "narcissist", etc, but in a lot of people with that label there isn't a physical problem that they were born with, but events in their lives (often early childhood as per the article) that changed something in their brains f…

I'll even acknowledge his dad was worse than he is, and my great-grandfather worse still. But all those generations until my brother died defending the belief that they were fine and everyone else was the problem. I think change is possible for anyone, but they have to want it (and the more change that's needed, the bigger the desire has to be). And I've realized there isn't anything I can do to make my dad want to c…

> But all those generations until my brother died defending the belief that they were fine and everyone else was the problem.

That's also what I observed but it's almost tautological, isn't it? If they were able/willing to realize it, they'd feel the need to change it, unless we're talking about severe psychopaths.

> I think change is possible for anyone, but they have to want it (and the more change that's needed, the bigger the desire has to be). And I've realized there isn't anything I can do to make my dad want to change.

I think it's possible most times, and that no one should try. The victim is usually better-placed to do it and they don't deserve to waste part of their life for someone who causes them problems on purpose.

It may be a job for the mental health system, or for school in the long run, but that's a long shot. Or maybe we should focus on giving victims an escape. I'm not sure there's a good solution if we want to give all parents freedom.