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One-third of Amazon warehouse workers are on food stamps or Medicaid

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Re: One-third of Amazon warehouse workers are on food stamps or Medicaid

#431

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> At the level of automation we've reached, labor is worth, per hour, way more than 100 years ago. The problem is just that this value is siphoned off by shareholders who do not have to work to receive the monetary value that should go to the worker. You are wrong, but so very close that it's understandable. What can be done with an hour of labour has gone up so very high. That it is true. But what has increased in v…

You're both wrong -- if you need two different resources as inputs to make something, and either missing makes the process impossible, it doesn't matter what your subjective opinions are when deciding which is more valuable. They are equally necessary and that's all there is to it. So how come some input resources are priced a lot more highly than others? How come sometimes, say, labor gets a big cut and capital a sm…

> They are equally necessary and that's all there is to it.

Equally necessary doesn’t mean equally valuable. So there is that.

The more tasks that are automated, the more easily a low level worker is replaced. And the less they will get paid.

Think warehouses, checkout attendants, gig workers, …

The masses of jobs don’t require unique humans. And the more is automated, the less individual worker skills matter. For most jobs.

This gives businesses huge economic leverage over their workers. They will pay them the minimum it takes, and since this is an economy wide problem, every drop in wages somewhere makes it easier for wages to be dropped elsewhere while still retaining workers.

Finally, any area where many workers manage to hold onto higher wages will have a target painted on it as a prime place for new business value to be made finding a way to commoditize their work with automation.

Businesses are rapidly growing the capabilities of their physical and informational automation. Human workers are not getting stronger, faster, or smarter. So they are forced to compete for jobs by getting cheaper.

Re: One-third of Amazon warehouse workers are on food stamps or Medicaid

#433
post #199

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> The only way around this is to let those people starve or implement UBI. That's pertinently false.

All it takes in one example to change your comment into something that provides additional value to the thread

Sorry, but: first, the usual criticism is that the one who claims has to show some proof, unless it's commonly accepted. The parent comment didn't. It just says "it's A or B", excluding the viability of every other option. Your criticism is better directed at that comment.

Second, look at Western/Northern Europe, or if you really insist on making this a US-only discussion: look at the period following WW2. It is possible to pay a living wage and to build a social safety net for the unemployed. It just requires the political guts to regulate the market.

Third, you can't just go around making absurd, polarizing comments and demand to be corrected in detail.

Re: One-third of Amazon warehouse workers are on food stamps or Medicaid

#434
post #340
post #276

Earlier quoted context omitted.

The biggest challenge is to prevent companies from just far more aggressively outsourcing. E.g. you get your CEO on contract from YourBrandCEOs'r'us, where he is paid 1x the salary of the lowest paid employee.

Interesting thought, but if one is legislating a wage ratio, one can also outlaw outsourcing executive functions/positions above a certain level, no?

Then the company hires a stooge CEO that happens to have "coach", and if they don't listen to their "coach" the board fires them. Or the CEO gets handed a board seat or side consulting gig from a key investor. Etc.

You can certainly try to address this, and I'm not saying it isn't worth trying. But I do think you'd be playing whack-a-mole with creative management consultancies and accountants trying to find workarounds for a very long time, and you'd need to be prepared for that.

It also doesn't really address the problem so much - while CEO pay is often entirely out of proportion, the money flow to investors is often a far bigger issue, and would also be a workaround: Ensure the CEO has enough shares, and gets to sell enough shares, and they have a vested interest in doing the work even with lower pay. E.g. there are plenty of CEO's on low pay because their ownership is sufficient.

Re: One-third of Amazon warehouse workers are on food stamps or Medicaid

#435

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Compare that calibre with this year’s roster and it makes me cry. Why didn’t he run a term later?

Let's be honest, no matter who the Republicans run, the candidate will be demonized. Only years later, when the person is not a threat to Democrat dominance will people judge them more positively on their actual value like is happening here (and has happened to McCain, and to Bush...). If you don't get points for running a good candidate, there's no incentive to run a good candidate, only one who can win.

The current republican candidate is highly different. He fomented a mob on the steps of the capital because he was upset he didn’t win.

The others you mention just had political qualities people disliked.

Re: One-third of Amazon warehouse workers are on food stamps or Medicaid

#436

Earlier quoted context omitted.

You're both wrong -- if you need two different resources as inputs to make something, and either missing makes the process impossible, it doesn't matter what your subjective opinions are when deciding which is more valuable. They are equally necessary and that's all there is to it. So how come some input resources are priced a lot more highly than others? How come sometimes, say, labor gets a big cut and capital a sm…

> They are equally necessary and that's all there is to it. Equally necessary doesn’t mean equally valuable. So there is that. The more tasks that are automated, the more easily a low level worker is replaced. And the less they will get paid. Think warehouses, checkout attendants, gig workers, … The masses of jobs don’t require unique humans. And the more is automated, the less individual worker skills matter. For mo…

But isn't it more profitable to replace a high-cost job like a data analyst or logistics expert than 10-20 low-cost jobs like warehouse workers? Like the cost of the machines and the maintenance probably will end up costing more than humans.

Re: One-third of Amazon warehouse workers are on food stamps or Medicaid

#437
post #266

Earlier quoted context omitted.

No. You're forgetting that there is a finite amount of work needed and so orders-of-magnitude fewer people are required. Also, the average real purchasing power in America has been declining for a very long time and cannot afford goods and services except through taking on debt.

There is a lot of work to be done. Literally everywhere is short staffed: hospitals and other medical groups, construction, retail, restaurants, pharmacies, etc. I don't remember things being like this 20 years ago. Wherever you go, there's huge waits due to staffing issues.

Yet all they offer are ghost jobs at worst and hourly/gig work at best?

Re: One-third of Amazon warehouse workers are on food stamps or Medicaid

#439

Earlier quoted context omitted.

This is so weird.. my experience doesn't match with this data at all.

Because money doesn't buy happiness, and a lot of the increase in purchasing power is pointless stuff like the fact that you can buy an iPad that's twice as powerful for half the cost, or get YouTube for free instead of paying $50 for cable, while the things that really matter like housing go up in price relative to wages. If you want to feel richer, look on Amazon/AliExpress and try to remember what stuff like that…

You're right. We get cheap knicknacks instead of cheap housing, electricity, water, food, etc.

Re: One-third of Amazon warehouse workers are on food stamps or Medicaid

#440

Earlier quoted context omitted.

You're both wrong -- if you need two different resources as inputs to make something, and either missing makes the process impossible, it doesn't matter what your subjective opinions are when deciding which is more valuable. They are equally necessary and that's all there is to it. So how come some input resources are priced a lot more highly than others? How come sometimes, say, labor gets a big cut and capital a sm…

> They are equally necessary and that's all there is to it. Equally necessary doesn’t mean equally valuable. So there is that. The more tasks that are automated, the more easily a low level worker is replaced. And the less they will get paid. Think warehouses, checkout attendants, gig workers, … The masses of jobs don’t require unique humans. And the more is automated, the less individual worker skills matter. For mo…

> Human workers are not getting smarter.

Everyone is walking around with devices that connect them to nearly the total sum of human knowledge. Not acting on that to get out of an easily replaceable job is a skill issue. Also, the education systems currently aren't the best. Automation and IT hasn't penetrated them as much as is feasible.

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