Live data from Hacker News

One-third of Amazon warehouse workers are on food stamps or Medicaid

twitter.com

261–270 of 487 posts

Re: One-third of Amazon warehouse workers are on food stamps or Medicaid

#261

Earlier quoted context omitted.

There are two basic solutions to this problem. 1. Everyone works less (the government mandates a 35, 30, 20... hour workweek), raising the relative value of labor. 2. We collectively do more than the bare minimum needed for survival and comfort (the government raises taxes, spending them on activities like building sports stadiums or moonbases), raising the demand for labor.

Or we could just have the government stop having laws that constrain competition, so that automation makes things cost less instead of siphoning the money into the coffers of megacorps, and then at lower prices people buy more products and services, increasing the demand for labor and decreasing the cost of living.

> so that automation makes things cost less instead of siphoning the money into the coffers of megacorps

I cannot trust any company with any modicum of success not to immediately exit into the hands of megacorps. I cannot hope that companies have any type of morality/"want to make the world better" anymore.

Re: One-third of Amazon warehouse workers are on food stamps or Medicaid

#262

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Jeff Bezos founded Amazon 30 years ago and is now worth more than $200 billion. So he has personally gained about $7 billion per year on average, heavily loaded toward more recent years. If you expand consideration from just him to all of Amazon's major shareholders, top management, board members, etc., and then compare to the warehouse workers, "contractor" delivery drivers, etc., it's plain to see that a large grou…

> Jeff Bezos founded Amazon 30 years ago and is now worth more than $200 billion Computing someone's net worth by multiplying the number of shares he holds by the last-traded price of that share yields a theoretical number that's only good for placing people on Forbes rich lists and as fodder for demagogues. It is not possible for him to actually convert all of his shares to $200B. > gained about $7 billion per year…

Amazon has been incredibly hostile to labor rights for their employees, including worker safety, fair compensation, parental leave, provision of basic benefits, reasonable schedules, collective bargaining, etc. They've been cited by federal labor judges for systematic unlawful behavior, and are under congressional investigation. Hopefully there will be some real consequences sometime soon. I'm not holding my breath though.

In the markets for package delivery and warehouse logistics, Amazon's uncompetitive and worker-abusive business practices and basic design have been putting systematic pressure on other firms to similarly mistreat their own workers to compete. In the more general retail market, Amazon's unlawful (but thus far substantially unpunished) anti-competitive business practices drive smaller competitors out of business and extract rents not just from Amazon's own workers/contractors and suppliers but from the economy broadly.

> are free to choose to work for a different employer

This is certainly more true than in a feudal economy where peasants are literally considered the personal property of the lord, but in many of the relevant local labor markets Amazon is a disproportionately large and influential employer without enough local employer competition that employees can easily switch jobs. The only real way for employees to get a fair bargain in such situations is collective bargaining via a union, but Amazon is notoriously opposed to union formation at its facilities, which it blocks unlawfully wherever it can.

Amazon doesn't use systematic physical brutality or murder to maintain their power, as done by e.g. feudal lords or drug gangs, but they do routinely (unlawfully) threaten workers with loss of pay/benefits or termination when those workers exercise their legally protected rights, and unlawfully follow through on those threats when workers persist. Since most people need to collect a paycheck to survive, this kind of violence is not entirely dissimilar to more direct physical attack.

Re: One-third of Amazon warehouse workers are on food stamps or Medicaid

#263

Earlier quoted context omitted.

>The government subsidizes corporate low wage work But importantly only the lowest of the low wages There is a huge swath of workers that can't get benefits like food stamps or medicaid because they don't qualify via the means testing formula and they can't really afford to live where they live, afford medical insurance etc. Its those folks that have it the worst, IMO. Cost of living keeps you from building any wealt…

> means testing[2] often costs more than the cost of fraud in social benefit programs! This is like saying that since robbery is rare, the cost of permitting robbery is lower than funding the police force, thus we should defund the police. Robbery is rare because the police exists

[deleted]

Re: One-third of Amazon warehouse workers are on food stamps or Medicaid

#264
post #213

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I agree with this. It is societies responsibility, through their elected government, to take care of people. If we need to support people more, we raise taxes and provide more support via the government. Holding the employer as responsible leads to things like employer provided healthcare, which ties people more strongly to their employer. Weakening the ties between employee and employer makes the workforce more dyna…

How though? We raise corporate taxes on every corporation? We somehow target those with a certain percentage of employees on government subsidies?

Raise corporate taxes on every corporation based on revenue. We have a graduated system of income taxes for people, do the same for corporations. Small mom and pop companies wouldn’t see an increase. But the Amazon’s of the world would.

Re: One-third of Amazon warehouse workers are on food stamps or Medicaid

#265

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Asking for a friend - how do you get access to those programs? He's about to be homeless.

Just Google your state plus food stamps. Typically that will lead to a portal for all of the Social services benefits. If not they need to also Google your state plus Medicare, as long as your state participated in the Medicare expansion.

It's Texas so there could be problems. Certainly no Medicare expansion.

Re: One-third of Amazon warehouse workers are on food stamps or Medicaid

#266

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Actually, it's the opposite. At the level of automation we've reached, labor is worth, per hour, way more than 100 years ago. The problem is just that this value is siphoned off by shareholders who do not have to work to receive the monetary value that should go to the worker. So the issue is simply in how corporations are set up and how the stock market is designed. The entire system is designed to drain as much val…

No. You're forgetting that there is a finite amount of work needed and so orders-of-magnitude fewer people are required. Also, the average real purchasing power in America has been declining for a very long time and cannot afford goods and services except through taking on debt.

There is a lot of work to be done. Literally everywhere is short staffed: hospitals and other medical groups, construction, retail, restaurants, pharmacies, etc. I don't remember things being like this 20 years ago. Wherever you go, there's huge waits due to staffing issues.

Re: One-third of Amazon warehouse workers are on food stamps or Medicaid

#267

Here's the thing. This is going to happen to everyone, as in, no person will be valuable enough via the contribution of their labor to survive without subsidies. At the level of automation we've reached in society, low-skilled labor is worth, per hour, a very small amount. As AI and automation improve, the majority of people will have negligible economic utility. The only way around this is to let those people starve…

Didn't people make similar claims around the industrial revolution?

Historically humans have been much more adaptable than machines. When machinery catches up to human capabilities, it out-competes them and humans find a new economic niche. In a world where machines are more adaptable and beat us to the new niches, where do we go?

Re: One-third of Amazon warehouse workers are on food stamps or Medicaid

#268

This is how our system works. The government subsidizes corporate low wage work, and everyone pats themselves on the back for being so enormously virtuous, truly the most wonderful people ever to have graced the earth. The circuitous redistribution is a feature and not a bug of the system. It prevents competition, which makes shareholders happy. It also provides a minimum standard of care for workers, who would other…

>The government subsidizes corporate low wage work But importantly only the lowest of the low wages There is a huge swath of workers that can't get benefits like food stamps or medicaid because they don't qualify via the means testing formula and they can't really afford to live where they live, afford medical insurance etc. Its those folks that have it the worst, IMO. Cost of living keeps you from building any wealt…

Agreed. I really think we'd be better off if EBT was expanded to everyone. Maybe this is a more palatable step into UBI.

Re: One-third of Amazon warehouse workers are on food stamps or Medicaid

#269

Earlier quoted context omitted.

There are two basic solutions to this problem. 1. Everyone works less (the government mandates a 35, 30, 20... hour workweek), raising the relative value of labor. 2. We collectively do more than the bare minimum needed for survival and comfort (the government raises taxes, spending them on activities like building sports stadiums or moonbases), raising the demand for labor.

Or we could just have the government stop having laws that constrain competition, so that automation makes things cost less instead of siphoning the money into the coffers of megacorps, and then at lower prices people buy more products and services, increasing the demand for labor and decreasing the cost of living.

Monopolies are the natural end here, since more money means more ability to invest in machinery to produce (or AI), or just buy up any of the newcomers.

Re: One-third of Amazon warehouse workers are on food stamps or Medicaid

#270
post #133

Earlier quoted context omitted.

We collectively bear the blame for allowing a system where government subsidizes shareholders and the wealthiest owners of these companies by not paying a living wage. In this case, these are Amazon government subsidies by way of the disadvantaged. "Why are consumers receiving low prices and shareholder profits more important than workers receiving a wage they can survive on?" seems to be a question no one wants to a…

>In this case, these are Amazon government subsidies by way of the disadvantaged. "Why are consumers receiving low prices and shareholder profits more important than workers receiving a wage they can survive on?" seems to be a question no one wants to answer. If this is a "subsidy" to Amazon, what do you think would happen if they were pulled? Would amazon be forced to raise wages, or would the wages stay the same (b…

Just pulling them isn't the only option. Raising minimum wage is another.
Post reply on HN