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Carmakers Will Give Your Location to Police Without a Warrant, Senators Say

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Re: Carmakers Will Give Your Location to Police Without a Warrant, Senators Say

#91

Post by vundercind »

akouri wrote: post #5

We're entering the age where having private, personal space is becoming almost impossible. If you have a conversation around your phone, you best believe that government actors can tap that mic. If you have a conversation at home, either your "smart" TV, fridge, or Google Home / Alexa is listening. Now, cars are just becoming tablets on wheels. In my Tesla, I am quite literally, being watched every time I drive. Ther…

> Gee, I hope my insurance company doesn't misinterpret this 'hard braking event' as me being an irresponsible driver.

Oh man, I had one of those boxes insurance companies send out to record you so you can qualify for lower rates for a couple weeks (my wife signed us up for it) and I felt like I was driving so much more dangerously with it on. But all my graphs would have been reeeeeal smooth.

Re: Carmakers Will Give Your Location to Police Without a Warrant, Senators Say

#92

Post by FireBeyond »

kotaKat wrote: post #14
akouri wrote: post #5

We're entering the age where having private, personal space is becoming almost impossible. If you have a conversation around your phone, you best believe that government actors can tap that mic. If you have a conversation at home, either your "smart" TV, fridge, or Google Home / Alexa is listening. Now, cars are just becoming tablets on wheels. In my Tesla, I am quite literally, being watched every time I drive. Ther…

> I have to assume that my vehicle will collect data that could be used against me in court. They always have, for a long time. Exploring event data recorders is an interesting art to get into and put together how crashes play out, sensor-by-sensor. To play along at home: https://crashdatagroup.com/ -- amusingly, one of the referrals mentioned on the page was essentially "Someone hit my parked car and then claimed I…

That really, really depends.

My stepdaughter was involved in a he-said, she-said collision in a lighted intersection. "I believe I had the green light", "no, I believe I had".

So me, thinking, talking to insurer, "While not definitive, if the EDR shows that she was a complete stop for 30s before moving, that might show she was stopped at a red, and then went when it turned green".

Insurer: unless we're looking at six digits in a claim, we're not pulling EDR data.

They did treat it as a not-at-fault collision, because fault could not be determined, but still.

Tesla will make you fight them to get access to your own EDR data. But will hold press conferences where they'll tell the world all about your EDR data if they think it will move the spotlight away from AP/FSD (fatal accident a few years ago where they were suspected to be involved. Tesla holds a press conference, "Akshually, the vehicle had told the driver to be more attentive". And it had. But Tesla didn't mention that it had only done that once. And that that one time was EIGHTEEN MINUTES prior to the collision. They just wanted to make it sound like an irresponsible driver.)

Re: Carmakers Will Give Your Location to Police Without a Warrant, Senators Say

#93

Post by seafoam »

mc32 wrote: post #75
bombcar wrote: post #67

Earlier quoted context omitted.

What you have to do is stay just under the radar without looking like you're staying under the radar. The Amish stand out. But mc32 driving a 1998 Volvo with no cell phone does not stand out.

That's a good point, though keep in mind in some countries older cars are taxed heavily and some jurisdictions are considering phasing out older cars (not allowed to repair major components). Probably won't be the case in the US, but who knows...

Emissions requirements create this same result in many parts of the US.

Re: Carmakers Will Give Your Location to Police Without a Warrant, Senators Say

#94

Post by jll29 »

tjohns wrote: post #80
toomuchtodo wrote: post #58

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Tesla does not divulge your location to law enforcement without a warrant, and stands out amongst other automakers who simply hand it over. They also were one of few automakers who wasn't selling your data to LexisNexis Risk Solutions for insurance pricing. https://www.tesla.com/legal/privacy https://www.nytimes.com/2024/03/11/technology/carmakers-driv... | https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=39666976 https://www.ft…

> They also were one of few automakers who wasn't selling your data to LexisNexis Risk Solutions for insurance pricing. I don't understand how this practice is legal. There really should be a way to request that my driving data is deleted, or at least opt-out from having it sold. I've also been trying to get LexisNexis to share a copy of my consumer file with me - which they refuse to do because of "identity verifica…

You have that right if you are a EU citizen - under GDPR you can serve a subject data request (to first learn what they have on you) and then a deletion request ("right to be forgotten").

Re: Carmakers Will Give Your Location to Police Without a Warrant, Senators Say

#95

Post by neuralRiot »

silisili wrote: post #71
PaulHoule wrote: post #57

Earlier quoted context omitted.

There's got to be a fuse to pull.

On my truck there is, but disabling the module also disables the whole infotainment. You could probably just go aftermarket but seems like a lot of work.

Unplug the GPS or the cellular network antenna. You might get an antenna error but it should keep working.

Re: Carmakers Will Give Your Location to Police Without a Warrant, Senators Say

#96

Post by toomuchtodo »

tjohns wrote: post #80
toomuchtodo wrote: post #58

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Tesla does not divulge your location to law enforcement without a warrant, and stands out amongst other automakers who simply hand it over. They also were one of few automakers who wasn't selling your data to LexisNexis Risk Solutions for insurance pricing. https://www.tesla.com/legal/privacy https://www.nytimes.com/2024/03/11/technology/carmakers-driv... | https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=39666976 https://www.ft…

> They also were one of few automakers who wasn't selling your data to LexisNexis Risk Solutions for insurance pricing. I don't understand how this practice is legal. There really should be a way to request that my driving data is deleted, or at least opt-out from having it sold. I've also been trying to get LexisNexis to share a copy of my consumer file with me - which they refuse to do because of "identity verifica…

If LexisNexis is not producing, I recommend filing complaints with both the CFPB and the FTC, as well as your state's attorney general.

https://www.consumerfinance.gov/complaint/

https://reportfraud.ftc.gov/

https://www.naag.org/find-my-ag/

Re: Carmakers Will Give Your Location to Police Without a Warrant, Senators Say

#97

Post by Lammy »

nrdgrrrl wrote: post #55
ru552 wrote: post #36

Earlier quoted context omitted.

It's not illegal, it's just that it doesn't allow it in the UI. Who do you call to have that service disabled? No one knows. The best you can do is talk to someone and have the auto renewal turned off. That doesn't turn off the existing service until the renewal period hits though.

Surely you can find the GPS antenna and disconnect it?

Better to replace it with an equivalent resistor so the ECU can't tell the difference between no-antenna and no-signal.

Re: Carmakers Will Give Your Location to Police Without a Warrant, Senators Say

#98

Post by bombcar »

seafoam wrote: post #93
mc32 wrote: post #75

Earlier quoted context omitted.

That's a good point, though keep in mind in some countries older cars are taxed heavily and some jurisdictions are considering phasing out older cars (not allowed to repair major components). Probably won't be the case in the US, but who knows...

Emissions requirements create this same result in many parts of the US.

You can usually get into a "vintage/collector" vehicle class at some point, but some states prohibit those being driven "regular".

Re: Carmakers Will Give Your Location to Police Without a Warrant, Senators Say

#99

Post by [deleted] »

bombcar wrote: post #86
hiatus wrote: post #69

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> The cops could absolutely track it. License plate readers are built into most cop cars and parking enforcement vehicles, they could call the carmaker, they could view cctv from the area, whatever. Maybe where you live that's true. Try going somewhere in upstate NY, or deep in West Virginia. The tracking technology is unevenly distributed.

And it depends on why it was stolen. Joy ride? It'll turn up. Destined for a chop shop? Even if they do track it all they'd see is it leaving the city, never to be seen again.

[deleted]

Re: Carmakers Will Give Your Location to Police Without a Warrant, Senators Say

#100

Post by jll29 »

Animats wrote: post #74
gordon_freeman wrote: post #60

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> You truly think about every move -- e.g. "Gee, I hope my insurance company doesn't misinterpret this 'hard braking event' as me being an irresponsible driver." This reminds me of the "Thought Police" from 1984.

In 1984, you never knew if they were watching. Now you know they're watching.

I suppose you mean the year 1984.

Because in the novel "1984", the slogan "Big Brother is watching you." literally contradicts that statement of yours.

Wikipedia writes:

> The ubiquitous slogan "Big Brother is watching you" serves as a constant reminder that Party members are not entitled to privacy. They are subject to constant surveillance to ensure their ideological purity. This is primarily through omnipresent telescreens that provide two-way video communication and constantly blare propaganda.

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