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Carmakers Will Give Your Location to Police Without a Warrant, Senators Say

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Re: Carmakers Will Give Your Location to Police Without a Warrant, Senators Say

#51

Post by exe34 »

JohnFen wrote: post #30
CivBase wrote: post #15

Earlier quoted context omitted.

You own the hardware. But in the modern world we do not own the software that allows us to make use of the hardware. If deactivating OnStar requires a modification to the car's software, I can definitely see how it could effectively be illegal to deactivate. In the world of modern tech, the concept of ownership is practically dead. But I don't know if a modification to the software is actually necessary or if that's…

No need to mess with the software to deactivate these things. Just yank a fuse, disconnect the antenna, or -- worst case -- physically break the support circuitry.

the issue is that eventually they'll just make the car not start without it. it's like your inkjet printer refusing to print black and white because it's run out of yellow.

Re: Carmakers Will Give Your Location to Police Without a Warrant, Senators Say

#53

Post by HankB99 »

theryan wrote: post #49
HankB99 wrote: post #48

Makes me wonder how this case remains unsolved. (Or if solved, unreported.) https://cwbchicago.com/2024/05/bucktown-hit-and-run-bentley-...

That looks like a ~2005 Bentley Continental which may not the ability to call home.

Thanks for pointing that out. I hadn't even thought about telemetry until I saw this article. I thought the plate number would be enough, especially since it's a plate licensed to a business (dealer plate.) Also since it's a Bentley - not a common car.

Re: Carmakers Will Give Your Location to Police Without a Warrant, Senators Say

#54

Post by moneywoes »

mikece wrote: post #4

There is a growing number of cases where the salesperson will activate OnStar (or a non-GM equivalent) without asking or telling the buyer about it. As far as I know, there is no (legal) way to deactivate OnStar or similar GPS trackers built into cars. Of course if you're driving in a city the proliferation of ALPRs is so pervasive that your movements are being tracked in real-time even if you're driving a 1958 Ford…

any more insight on alpr?

Re: Carmakers Will Give Your Location to Police Without a Warrant, Senators Say

#55

Post by nrdgrrrl »

ru552 wrote: post #36
JohnFen wrote: post #10

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> As far as I know, there is no (legal) way to deactivate OnStar or similar GPS trackers built into cars. I'm not aware of any law (in the US) that prohibits you from disabling these things in a vehicle you own. Is it actually illegal?

It's not illegal, it's just that it doesn't allow it in the UI. Who do you call to have that service disabled? No one knows. The best you can do is talk to someone and have the auto renewal turned off. That doesn't turn off the existing service until the renewal period hits though.

Surely you can find the GPS antenna and disconnect it?

Re: Carmakers Will Give Your Location to Police Without a Warrant, Senators Say

#56

Post by moneywoes »

apazzolini wrote: post #3
cranberryturkey wrote: post #2

My car was stolen a year ago. If it wasn’t for the iPhone app tracker I had I never would have gotten it back. Police didn’t have any way to track it.

If someone steals my car, I hope it's never recovered so I can get the insurance payout. Who knows how the thief drove it (e.g. put it in neutral and floored it for 10 minutes) and what unseen damage lurks.

dont you have to pay A huge deductible?

Re: Carmakers Will Give Your Location to Police Without a Warrant, Senators Say

#57

Post by PaulHoule »

ru552 wrote: post #36
JohnFen wrote: post #10

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> As far as I know, there is no (legal) way to deactivate OnStar or similar GPS trackers built into cars. I'm not aware of any law (in the US) that prohibits you from disabling these things in a vehicle you own. Is it actually illegal?

It's not illegal, it's just that it doesn't allow it in the UI. Who do you call to have that service disabled? No one knows. The best you can do is talk to someone and have the auto renewal turned off. That doesn't turn off the existing service until the renewal period hits though.

There's got to be a fuse to pull.

Re: Carmakers Will Give Your Location to Police Without a Warrant, Senators Say

#58

Post by toomuchtodo »

akouri wrote: post #5

We're entering the age where having private, personal space is becoming almost impossible. If you have a conversation around your phone, you best believe that government actors can tap that mic. If you have a conversation at home, either your "smart" TV, fridge, or Google Home / Alexa is listening. Now, cars are just becoming tablets on wheels. In my Tesla, I am quite literally, being watched every time I drive. Ther…

Tesla does not divulge your location to law enforcement without a warrant, and stands out amongst other automakers who simply hand it over. They also were one of few automakers who wasn't selling your data to LexisNexis Risk Solutions for insurance pricing.

https://www.tesla.com/legal/privacy

https://www.nytimes.com/2024/03/11/technology/carmakers-driv... | https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=39666976

https://www.ftc.gov/policy/advocacy-research/tech-at-ftc/202...

Edit: Obligatory political process call to action: https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=40203558

(own Teslas, have submitted comments to Senator Wyden and the FTC on the topic, responsible for data security and privacy at a fintech, thoughts and opinions are my own)

Re: Carmakers Will Give Your Location to Police Without a Warrant, Senators Say

#59

Post by hiatus »

exe34 wrote: post #51
JohnFen wrote: post #30

Earlier quoted context omitted.

No need to mess with the software to deactivate these things. Just yank a fuse, disconnect the antenna, or -- worst case -- physically break the support circuitry.

the issue is that eventually they'll just make the car not start without it. it's like your inkjet printer refusing to print black and white because it's run out of yellow.

That sounds like it would have profound safety implications.

Re: Carmakers Will Give Your Location to Police Without a Warrant, Senators Say

#60

Post by gordon_freeman »

akouri wrote: post #5

We're entering the age where having private, personal space is becoming almost impossible. If you have a conversation around your phone, you best believe that government actors can tap that mic. If you have a conversation at home, either your "smart" TV, fridge, or Google Home / Alexa is listening. Now, cars are just becoming tablets on wheels. In my Tesla, I am quite literally, being watched every time I drive. Ther…

> You truly think about every move -- e.g. "Gee, I hope my insurance company doesn't misinterpret this 'hard braking event' as me being an irresponsible driver."

This reminds me of the "Thought Police" from 1984.

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