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Carmakers Will Give Your Location to Police Without a Warrant, Senators Say

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Re: Carmakers Will Give Your Location to Police Without a Warrant, Senators Say

#71

Post by silisili »

PaulHoule wrote: post #57
ru552 wrote: post #36

Earlier quoted context omitted.

It's not illegal, it's just that it doesn't allow it in the UI. Who do you call to have that service disabled? No one knows. The best you can do is talk to someone and have the auto renewal turned off. That doesn't turn off the existing service until the renewal period hits though.

There's got to be a fuse to pull.

On my truck there is, but disabling the module also disables the whole infotainment. You could probably just go aftermarket but seems like a lot of work.

Re: Carmakers Will Give Your Location to Police Without a Warrant, Senators Say

#72

Post by gosub100 »

mc32 wrote: post #23
akouri wrote: post #5

We're entering the age where having private, personal space is becoming almost impossible. If you have a conversation around your phone, you best believe that government actors can tap that mic. If you have a conversation at home, either your "smart" TV, fridge, or Google Home / Alexa is listening. Now, cars are just becoming tablets on wheels. In my Tesla, I am quite literally, being watched every time I drive. Ther…

One option that’s not great, is to follow the Amish —though the feds like irritating them from time to time. Maybe another is Indian lands, but who knows, they will likely find ways around that too.

The natives using their sovereignty to sell us our freedom back from a tyrannical government. You might be on to something, if they could sell colocated rack space on the reservation that was somehow immune to government snooping.

Re: Carmakers Will Give Your Location to Police Without a Warrant, Senators Say

#73

Post by adamomada »

bombcar wrote: post #67
mc32 wrote: post #23

Earlier quoted context omitted.

One option that’s not great, is to follow the Amish —though the feds like irritating them from time to time. Maybe another is Indian lands, but who knows, they will likely find ways around that too.

What you have to do is stay just under the radar without looking like you're staying under the radar. The Amish stand out. But mc32 driving a 1998 Volvo with no cell phone does not stand out.

Depends where you are. ‘round here, not driving a late-model vehicle seems to be probable cause

Re: Carmakers Will Give Your Location to Police Without a Warrant, Senators Say

#74

Post by Animats »

gordon_freeman wrote: post #60
akouri wrote: post #5

We're entering the age where having private, personal space is becoming almost impossible. If you have a conversation around your phone, you best believe that government actors can tap that mic. If you have a conversation at home, either your "smart" TV, fridge, or Google Home / Alexa is listening. Now, cars are just becoming tablets on wheels. In my Tesla, I am quite literally, being watched every time I drive. Ther…

> You truly think about every move -- e.g. "Gee, I hope my insurance company doesn't misinterpret this 'hard braking event' as me being an irresponsible driver." This reminds me of the "Thought Police" from 1984.

In 1984, you never knew if they were watching. Now you know they're watching.

Re: Carmakers Will Give Your Location to Police Without a Warrant, Senators Say

#75

Post by mc32 »

bombcar wrote: post #67
mc32 wrote: post #23

Earlier quoted context omitted.

One option that’s not great, is to follow the Amish —though the feds like irritating them from time to time. Maybe another is Indian lands, but who knows, they will likely find ways around that too.

What you have to do is stay just under the radar without looking like you're staying under the radar. The Amish stand out. But mc32 driving a 1998 Volvo with no cell phone does not stand out.

That's a good point, though keep in mind in some countries older cars are taxed heavily and some jurisdictions are considering phasing out older cars (not allowed to repair major components). Probably won't be the case in the US, but who knows...

Re: Carmakers Will Give Your Location to Police Without a Warrant, Senators Say

#76

Post by bombcar »

HankB99 wrote: post #53
theryan wrote: post #49

Earlier quoted context omitted.

That looks like a ~2005 Bentley Continental which may not the ability to call home.

Thanks for pointing that out. I hadn't even thought about telemetry until I saw this article. I thought the plate number would be enough, especially since it's a plate licensed to a business (dealer plate.) Also since it's a Bentley - not a common car.

My guess is the dealership is shady and pulling the "any one of our ten salesmen could have been driving it (we know it was Joe)" kind of thing.

Re: Carmakers Will Give Your Location to Police Without a Warrant, Senators Say

#77

Post by dietr1ch »

toomuchtodo wrote: post #58
akouri wrote: post #5

We're entering the age where having private, personal space is becoming almost impossible. If you have a conversation around your phone, you best believe that government actors can tap that mic. If you have a conversation at home, either your "smart" TV, fridge, or Google Home / Alexa is listening. Now, cars are just becoming tablets on wheels. In my Tesla, I am quite literally, being watched every time I drive. Ther…

Tesla does not divulge your location to law enforcement without a warrant, and stands out amongst other automakers who simply hand it over. They also were one of few automakers who wasn't selling your data to LexisNexis Risk Solutions for insurance pricing. https://www.tesla.com/legal/privacy https://www.nytimes.com/2024/03/11/technology/carmakers-driv... | https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=39666976 https://www.ft…

my bike manufacturer does not divulge my location either, but in a much easier to trust way and without a possibility for circumvention.

Cars knowing their own location can be really useful, but why does the manufacturer need to know about it? and to begin with, why are they allowed to know about it?

Re: Carmakers Will Give Your Location to Police Without a Warrant, Senators Say

#78

Post by driverdan »

akouri wrote: post #5

We're entering the age where having private, personal space is becoming almost impossible. If you have a conversation around your phone, you best believe that government actors can tap that mic. If you have a conversation at home, either your "smart" TV, fridge, or Google Home / Alexa is listening. Now, cars are just becoming tablets on wheels. In my Tesla, I am quite literally, being watched every time I drive. Ther…

It's not almost impossible. You're choosing to buy a Tesla and connect your "smart" appliances to the internet. You have other options.

The only person to blame is yourself.

I'm not saying companies should be allowed to do this, we really need a comprehensive privacy bill of rights, but you don't have to buy this crap that tracks you.

Re: Carmakers Will Give Your Location to Police Without a Warrant, Senators Say

#79

Post by shadowgovt »

To take the counterpoint to most comments on this topic:

It used to be impractical to track cars to fine granularity. Now that it is practical: maybe we want that?

Cars are multi-ton, incredibly-expensive pieces of hardware that operate on shared roadways. There are about 42,000 deaths related to operating them each year. Increased tracking would simplify the challenges of

* Finding stolen vehicles

* Discovering the truth in accidents

* Identifying unsafe drivers and removing them from the road

* Identifying unsafe areas of the roadway and improving them

Perhaps there is previously-inaccessible net societal good in not treating cars as a private space when they're operating on public roads that we should be tapping? There's already precedent for it; the legal reason the cops need a much lower standard to search your car than search your house is, practically, it's much easier to commit a crime and then exit the jurisdiction because the vehicle is mobile.

So perhaps we should extrapolate that reasoning. Perhaps rights to privacy should be curtailed in the operation of large vehicles on public roadways. Maybe the status quo is bad, actually.

Re: Carmakers Will Give Your Location to Police Without a Warrant, Senators Say

#80

Post by tjohns »

toomuchtodo wrote: post #58
akouri wrote: post #5

We're entering the age where having private, personal space is becoming almost impossible. If you have a conversation around your phone, you best believe that government actors can tap that mic. If you have a conversation at home, either your "smart" TV, fridge, or Google Home / Alexa is listening. Now, cars are just becoming tablets on wheels. In my Tesla, I am quite literally, being watched every time I drive. Ther…

Tesla does not divulge your location to law enforcement without a warrant, and stands out amongst other automakers who simply hand it over. They also were one of few automakers who wasn't selling your data to LexisNexis Risk Solutions for insurance pricing. https://www.tesla.com/legal/privacy https://www.nytimes.com/2024/03/11/technology/carmakers-driv... | https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=39666976 https://www.ft…

> They also were one of few automakers who wasn't selling your data to LexisNexis Risk Solutions for insurance pricing.

I don't understand how this practice is legal. There really should be a way to request that my driving data is deleted, or at least opt-out from having it sold.

I've also been trying to get LexisNexis to share a copy of my consumer file with me - which they refuse to do because of "identity verification" purposes, even though they don't ask any questions on the form to establish identity. I feel like they're intentionally making it hard for individuals to see what data they have on them.

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