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One-third of Amazon warehouse workers are on food stamps or Medicaid

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Re: One-third of Amazon warehouse workers are on food stamps or Medicaid

#201

Post by WarOnPrivacy »

frumper wrote: post #147
ilya_m wrote: post #128

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> It's based on income, and handled by the states, and the income limit climbs based on number of children. SNAP also require asset limits, which is $2,750 per _household_. Given that rent for a large family may easily be in the ~$1,500-2,500 range, it leaves pretty much no money in the bank for any other expenses.

That isn't the case for most of the country. Page 5 of the following link shows it by state. https://www.clasp.org/sites/default/files/publications/2018/...

> That isn't the case for most of the country.

Most is a figure above 50%.

As far as reports indicate poor folks have access to SNAP, it's true in some states and mostly a lie in others.

My fingers are kind of tired from debunking SNAP myths today. My other posts here will have to do.

Re: One-third of Amazon warehouse workers are on food stamps or Medicaid

#202

Post by organsnyder »

monero-xmr wrote: post #190
michael9423 wrote: post #182

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Actually, it's the opposite. At the level of automation we've reached, labor is worth, per hour, way more than 100 years ago. The problem is just that this value is siphoned off by shareholders who do not have to work to receive the monetary value that should go to the worker. So the issue is simply in how corporations are set up and how the stock market is designed. The entire system is designed to drain as much val…

And I would say that developed western nations, including the USA, have done a pretty good job of providing subsidies and benefits for low skilled workers, so they can get on the lowest rung of the totem pole and contribute to society without starving. We specifically have food stamps, the EITC, welfare, child tax credit, housing vouchers, and so on specifically so they can provide valuable labor to society (and mini…

Surviving in these systems is incredibly stressful and leads to trauma for both the workers and their families. The stigma, uncertainty, and bureaucracy exact tremendous tolls.

Re: One-third of Amazon warehouse workers are on food stamps or Medicaid

#203

Post by mistermann »

monero-xmr wrote: post #190
michael9423 wrote: post #182

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Actually, it's the opposite. At the level of automation we've reached, labor is worth, per hour, way more than 100 years ago. The problem is just that this value is siphoned off by shareholders who do not have to work to receive the monetary value that should go to the worker. So the issue is simply in how corporations are set up and how the stock market is designed. The entire system is designed to drain as much val…

And I would say that developed western nations, including the USA, have done a pretty good job of providing subsidies and benefits for low skilled workers, so they can get on the lowest rung of the totem pole and contribute to society without starving. We specifically have food stamps, the EITC, welfare, child tax credit, housing vouchers, and so on specifically so they can provide valuable labor to society (and mini…

I wonder how our "pretty good" would rank in percentage terms on an absolute scale (what is possible under the circumstances we find ourselves in).

I bet cultures that have the ability to consider such perspectives would beat us handily, especially if they could do it willingly.

Re: One-third of Amazon warehouse workers are on food stamps or Medicaid

#204

Post by FrankyHollywood »

atleastoptimal wrote: post #129

Here's the thing. This is going to happen to everyone, as in, no person will be valuable enough via the contribution of their labor to survive without subsidies. At the level of automation we've reached in society, low-skilled labor is worth, per hour, a very small amount. As AI and automation improve, the majority of people will have negligible economic utility. The only way around this is to let those people starve…

> At the level of automation we've reached in society

We have been automating work for many centuries. And after a hundred years Keynes prediction [1] still isn't reality, somehow we keep finding ways of keeping ourselves busy :)

[1] https://www.npr.org/2015/08/13/432122637/keynes-predicted-we...

Re: One-third of Amazon warehouse workers are on food stamps or Medicaid

#205

Post by pompino »

atleastoptimal wrote: post #129

Here's the thing. This is going to happen to everyone, as in, no person will be valuable enough via the contribution of their labor to survive without subsidies. At the level of automation we've reached in society, low-skilled labor is worth, per hour, a very small amount. As AI and automation improve, the majority of people will have negligible economic utility. The only way around this is to let those people starve…

>our implicit assumption that a person's value is tied to their potential economic value.

The assumption is that their salary is tied to their potential economic value. Human value and dignity is separate.

Re: One-third of Amazon warehouse workers are on food stamps or Medicaid

#206

Post by hi-v-rocknroll »

michael9423 wrote: post #182
atleastoptimal wrote: post #129

Here's the thing. This is going to happen to everyone, as in, no person will be valuable enough via the contribution of their labor to survive without subsidies. At the level of automation we've reached in society, low-skilled labor is worth, per hour, a very small amount. As AI and automation improve, the majority of people will have negligible economic utility. The only way around this is to let those people starve…

Actually, it's the opposite. At the level of automation we've reached, labor is worth, per hour, way more than 100 years ago. The problem is just that this value is siphoned off by shareholders who do not have to work to receive the monetary value that should go to the worker. So the issue is simply in how corporations are set up and how the stock market is designed. The entire system is designed to drain as much val…

No. You're forgetting that there is a finite amount of work needed and so orders-of-magnitude fewer people are required.

Also, the average real purchasing power in America has been declining for a very long time and cannot afford goods and services except through taking on debt.

Re: One-third of Amazon warehouse workers are on food stamps or Medicaid

#208

Post by keybored »

atleastoptimal wrote: post #129

Here's the thing. This is going to happen to everyone, as in, no person will be valuable enough via the contribution of their labor to survive without subsidies. At the level of automation we've reached in society, low-skilled labor is worth, per hour, a very small amount. As AI and automation improve, the majority of people will have negligible economic utility. The only way around this is to let those people starve…

What implicit assumption? Implicit? There are only hard facts. This “inevitability” is only caused by private ownership of real, tangible things as well as nebulous things like ideas (or the reproduction of assets that cost marginally nothing). No one talks about what those who sit their asses on these assets are “worth” economically. Because it’s besides the point. They sit on the assets so they win. Those who have nothing to sell but their labor lose.

And this wasn’t inevitable. But we have made it so.

Now we get to talk about philosophical feel-good nonsense like “decoupling assumptions about a person’s value”. When in an alternate reality we could all share in this plenty equally.

Let’s have a fun future being at the mercy of our arbitrary asset-sitting overlords.

Re: One-third of Amazon warehouse workers are on food stamps or Medicaid

#209

Post by Symbiote »

Fernicia wrote: post #181
Fauntleroy wrote: post #165

Earlier quoted context omitted.

If you knew someone working at an Amazon Warehouse position who needed to use government benefits to get by, would you consider them "well" or even "fairly" paid?

What is your null hypothesis here? Would they be better off if Amazon moved their warehouse to another state or country?

Amazon can raise prices slightly.

Re: One-third of Amazon warehouse workers are on food stamps or Medicaid

#210

Post by jimbokun »

organsnyder wrote: post #202
monero-xmr wrote: post #190

Earlier quoted context omitted.

And I would say that developed western nations, including the USA, have done a pretty good job of providing subsidies and benefits for low skilled workers, so they can get on the lowest rung of the totem pole and contribute to society without starving. We specifically have food stamps, the EITC, welfare, child tax credit, housing vouchers, and so on specifically so they can provide valuable labor to society (and mini…

Surviving in these systems is incredibly stressful and leads to trauma for both the workers and their families. The stigma, uncertainty, and bureaucracy exact tremendous tolls.

Try surviving in the world before those systems existed.
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