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The Effects of Early Relational Trauma (2001) [pdf]

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Re: The Effects of Early Relational Trauma (2001) [pdf]

#111

Post by wing-_-nuts »

TeeMassive wrote: post #41

Finally a subject my childhood makes me "expert" at! People often say that I have a unsavory dark humor, but it's one of the best coping mechanism out there. My earliest memory is my mother spreading food all over my face because I didn't want to finish my plate. I remember my eyes hurting because of the pepper in it. My father threatened to shoot the family dog on a weekly basis to make me behave. I could not leave…

>Once I applied for a job that required a high security clearance. I had to write "all the traumas of your childhood and your adolescence".

Huh? I don't recall those questions on my clearance application. Was this a SF-86?

Re: The Effects of Early Relational Trauma (2001) [pdf]

#112

Post by lanstin »

aidenn0 wrote: post #53
dang wrote: post #46

Earlier quoted context omitted.

That's seriously awful. I'm glad you have a sense of humor because that seems like one of the helpful reactions that could arise from such a nightmare. > They would often bring me in front of the school's psychologist and he would make me cry in front of them, always blaming me, never once asking me what was going on at home. It's remarkable how institutions (the school psychologist in your case) often re-inflict the…

> It's remarkable how institutions (the school psychologist in your case) often re-inflict the trauma that is going on at home. It's their job to protect the child, but often they do the opposite, and it's worth asking why. I experienced this myself, though in a very different context—everyone's story is unique of course. I think the simplest explanation here is Sturgeon's law: 90% of everything is crud. This goes fo…

The abusers really can go from threatening a six year old with what sounds like credible threats to making the adults laugh within seconds without any visible whiplash.

And the will to deny is extremely strong; to believe the child one has to revamp one's beliefs about society in a large and risky direction.

Re: The Effects of Early Relational Trauma (2001) [pdf]

#113

Post by sage76 »

usefulcat wrote: post #42
lanstin wrote: post #40

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Most of the research on child sexual abuse in the US shows that rates have dropped by about 50% since the 1970s. https://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/books/NBK201120/ search for "Evidence for a Decline in Physical and Sexual Abuse" (searched for that to post this, and they cite %60 since the 1990s). Freud himself discovered a tremendous amount of horrible abuse in his patients; depending on the culture, most people just turn…

> People that haven't experienced it and recovered from it a bit are really good at not believing how common it is. Also, for people who have experienced it, it's often the last thing they'd ever want to talk about. With anyone, including people they are really close to. There's a good chance you could have a close personal friend or even your partner and never know they had gone through something like that.

> it's often the last thing they'd ever want to talk about. With anyone, including people they are really close to.

'Get over it' is the most common response. That's why they shut up about it. People who are close to them are only close because of something positive that is being offered. Nobody wants to deal with anyone else's issues.

Re: The Effects of Early Relational Trauma (2001) [pdf]

#114

Post by graemep »

sleno wrote: post #87
igorramazanov wrote: post #36

Attachment Theory is an interesting subject on the matter. A few useful books which helped me with both understanding and healing (there're still problems, but it gets better): 1. Love Sense, Sue Johnson. 2. The Power of Attachment, Diane Pooler Heller. 3. Understanding Disorganized Attachment: Theory and Practice for Working with Children and Adults, David, Shemmings and Yvonne Shemmings. 4. The Body Keeps the Score…

Could you summarize some practical takeaways from all these books? To be honest I've become a bit skeptical of how much this sort of stuff helps. From what I see, our society has become much more well-versed in all this psychology-therapy-trauma material in the last 20 years, yet despite this we're taking more anti-depressants and seeing more therapy than ever. Mentally and spiritually we seem to be doing worse than…

> Somehow, humans managed to get by for thousands of years without any of this stuff.

In very different societies. Our societies have gradually become less and less like what we evolved to fit into: small groups, time out doors, lots of face to face contact with people you are close to etc.

Some past societies were pretty miserable for many people. I am pretty sure slaves had lots of trauma and other psychological problems, but not one cared. Even where people were cared about there were no consistent records kept so maybe we do not know.

> Conversely, my more religious friends (Catholic, Muslim) seem happier and more resilient psychologically.

I think religious faith and practices probably do help. However, that is not a practical solution because it is not something you can fake. You cannot just decide to believe something, and you may need faith rather than just belief to get the benefits. The benefits are a side effect of the aims of the religion (developing a relationship with God, achieving nirvana, etc.) and will not happen unless you are sincerely following the aim.

Religions have practices and ideas that help resilience, and sometimes those parallel ideas in psychology and therapy - but for the reasons above will not work out of context.

That is even without taking into account the possibility that (some) religious beliefs are true and, for example, God will (at least sometimes) answer a sincere prayer for the strength to cope with your problems. Maybe your Catholic and Muslim friends are receiving divine support - or just believing in a constant loving and perfect parental figure is a source of comfort that promotes resilience.

Re: The Effects of Early Relational Trauma (2001) [pdf]

#115

Post by lanstin »

Narhem wrote: post #98
taurath wrote: post #62

Earlier quoted context omitted.

It’s a larger club than you might imagine, and even to the deepest depths of nigh-unimaginable mistreatment there are people who have worked through it.

The sad part is the best way to deal with it is pretend it never happened. Feel so defeatist but that'd the reality of being a man.

That is a useful coping strategy for a child but if you can get away from the abusive family or whatever group, as an adult you absolutely can be free to deal with the effects until you know yourself as a free, powerful, and normal human being, with a life you are contented by.

Re: The Effects of Early Relational Trauma (2001) [pdf]

#116

Post by graemep »

wumbo wrote: post #102
Ghexor wrote: post #100

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I think your impression has merit and labeling people as 'sick' or 'broken' or any of the diagnoses in psychology literature, that imply just about the same, can keep people stuck identifying with their afflictions. And that there's some great value in religion that we've not found a good replacement for. I also believe that one can go without facing deeply traumatic events for an entire life and seem to many on the…

“some great value in religion” takes a long time of filtering through stories and metaphors to find the actual point. I get it, some lessons are hard to teach and it’s easier to present the framework of the lesson in a story, then people make connections as they grow. But you also have to consider all of the harmful misinterpretations that come with it. If most people come away from religion less ethical than nonreli…

> If most people come away from religion less ethical than nonreligious people

How do you test that? You cannot do a double blind test because you cannot induce religion in people to order.

> let’s see if we can take the good parts of the texts and throw the rest away.

I do not think you can do that. Each religion is largely shaped by a few key ideas. Remove one of those and you change it radically (losing the good) remove anything else and you will not change anything significant.

You can reform and improve religions, but I think history shows that is not easy nor are the results predictable.

I think you over-emphasise the importance of texts to religions in general. Texts are the foundation of American evangelical Christianity and (to an extent I am worse equipped to judge) Islam, but much of Christianity and at least some schools of Buddhism are really based in a very small core of ideas.

Re: The Effects of Early Relational Trauma (2001) [pdf]

#117

Post by TeeMassive »

wing-_-nuts wrote: post #111
TeeMassive wrote: post #41

Finally a subject my childhood makes me "expert" at! People often say that I have a unsavory dark humor, but it's one of the best coping mechanism out there. My earliest memory is my mother spreading food all over my face because I didn't want to finish my plate. I remember my eyes hurting because of the pepper in it. My father threatened to shoot the family dog on a weekly basis to make me behave. I could not leave…

>Once I applied for a job that required a high security clearance. I had to write "all the traumas of your childhood and your adolescence". Huh? I don't recall those questions on my clearance application. Was this a SF-86?

Canadian stuff ;)

Re: The Effects of Early Relational Trauma (2001) [pdf]

#118

Post by TeeMassive »

theshackleford wrote: post #51
TeeMassive wrote: post #41

Finally a subject my childhood makes me "expert" at! People often say that I have a unsavory dark humor, but it's one of the best coping mechanism out there. My earliest memory is my mother spreading food all over my face because I didn't want to finish my plate. I remember my eyes hurting because of the pepper in it. My father threatened to shoot the family dog on a weekly basis to make me behave. I could not leave…

I had a very similar upbringing friend, I am so sorry to hear it. It's left me with life long deficiencies that haunt me to today, even when I don't realise it. It's tough.

It's always the deficiencies that are invisible that are the most vicious. You know that something is wrong with you but you can't tell what, why or what.

Re: The Effects of Early Relational Trauma (2001) [pdf]

#119

Post by wing-_-nuts »

TeeMassive wrote: post #117
wing-_-nuts wrote: post #111

Earlier quoted context omitted.

>Once I applied for a job that required a high security clearance. I had to write "all the traumas of your childhood and your adolescence". Huh? I don't recall those questions on my clearance application. Was this a SF-86?

Canadian stuff ;)

To be honest I would have been deeply uncomfortable with that. My SF-86 was invasive enough and I later found out that information had been leaked in a hack of OPM. I would have absolutely imploded if it included background from my childhood.

Re: The Effects of Early Relational Trauma (2001) [pdf]

#120

Post by gosub100 »

sleno wrote: post #87
igorramazanov wrote: post #36

Attachment Theory is an interesting subject on the matter. A few useful books which helped me with both understanding and healing (there're still problems, but it gets better): 1. Love Sense, Sue Johnson. 2. The Power of Attachment, Diane Pooler Heller. 3. Understanding Disorganized Attachment: Theory and Practice for Working with Children and Adults, David, Shemmings and Yvonne Shemmings. 4. The Body Keeps the Score…

Could you summarize some practical takeaways from all these books? To be honest I've become a bit skeptical of how much this sort of stuff helps. From what I see, our society has become much more well-versed in all this psychology-therapy-trauma material in the last 20 years, yet despite this we're taking more anti-depressants and seeing more therapy than ever. Mentally and spiritually we seem to be doing worse than…

> my more religious friends (Catholic, Muslim)

Those religions mandate women to submit to the male or they are kicked out of the group. Of course things are more orderly when there is a chain of command and severe consequences (like losing your whole family) for demanding equality, asking questions, or questioning authority. Don't confuse the order for happiness. Ask a Muslim or Catholic what happens when you're gay, for example. Or review what the Churchs response was to child sexual abuse. In that case the social order actively contributed to more trauma!

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