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Hertz Charging a Tesla Renter for Gas Was Not an Isolated Incident

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Re: Hertz Charging a Tesla Renter for Gas Was Not an Isolated Incident

#51
post #48

Aside from charging to put gas in an EV, the amounts they are charging seem really high. How could filling a sedan with gas cost $200 to $400? That’s like 10x what the actual gas costs retail at the pump.

If you check what rental companies charge for gas when you pick up a car, they typically list something like $12/gallon here if you don't prepay, and something like $5-7/gallon if you "buy the tank". This vs maybe $3-4/gal at the nearest station.

Re: Hertz Charging a Tesla Renter for Gas Was Not an Isolated Incident

#52

I wonder if this depends on the Hertz franchise location? I've rented EVs from Hertz at the Fort Lauderdale airport twice and had a great experience with things costing just what I expected. It was a great way to learn about EVs: my new car is a Volvo C40 mostly because I had such a good experience with a Polestar from Hertz.

Great question and point. I was be surprised if there was not an incentive for the manager at each individual location to push up incidental charges.

Of course there must be. Rental agencies do incur cost to missing gas, car damage, etc, and they must track incident cost accrued vs incidental cost billed to customer. If B < A, someone gets their ass chewed out. To avoid that, they commit fraud and spread the incidental cost on everyone.

Re: Hertz Charging a Tesla Renter for Gas Was Not an Isolated Incident

#53

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Can you use a small claims court if the rental contract has mandatory binding arbitration clause?

You absolutely can. Now the company has to pay one of their lawyers ($$$) to show up, or the claim is a default judgement, which they have to pay. So the lawyer shows up and says blah blah mandatory binding arbitration. The judge can interrupt and say "don't care, judgement against, pay the man". Or the opposite, in which case at least you cost them more than they cost you. Which is why they probably take the default…

Yeah, the key thing here is that even if the arbitration agreement is binding, they have to have someone actually show up and prove that to the judge.

So multiply that across even a few hundred times...

Re: Hertz Charging a Tesla Renter for Gas Was Not an Isolated Incident

#55

Earlier quoted context omitted.

While I generally agree with your premise, the problem is that when companies realize they can make more money through "old big company incompetence", at best it means they have no incentive to improve, and at worst in means they can maliciously overcharge and then just blame it on "incompetence". I really think government needs to enact laws that make companies compensate people for their time when they have to deal…

Yes. This is why I find Hanlon's Razor annoying (" Never attribute to malice that which is adequately explained by stupidity"), as it doesn't consider the higher order effect of what happens when the malicious are aware of the adage and willing to pretend to be incompetent. One obvious example: OneTrust cookie banners. They're nearly all misconfigured to have the "Reject Cookies" button greyed out or missing (or a li…

Agreed. Also worth noting that Hanlon’s razor was not originally intended to be interpreted as a philosophical idea in the same way as Occam’s:

> The term ‘Hanlon’s Razor’ and its accompanying phrase originally came from an individual named Robert. J. Hanlon from Scranton, Pennsylvania as a submission for a book of jokes and aphorisms, published in 1980 by Arthur Bloch.

https://thedecisionlab.com/reference-guide/philosophy/hanlon...

Hopefully we can collectively begin to put it to rest.

Re: Hertz Charging a Tesla Renter for Gas Was Not an Isolated Incident

#56

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Can you use a small claims court if the rental contract has mandatory binding arbitration clause?

You absolutely can. Now the company has to pay one of their lawyers ($$$) to show up, or the claim is a default judgement, which they have to pay. So the lawyer shows up and says blah blah mandatory binding arbitration. The judge can interrupt and say "don't care, judgement against, pay the man". Or the opposite, in which case at least you cost them more than they cost you. Which is why they probably take the default…

At least in some courts, I would think filing a motion to dismiss would be enough, without swnding a lawyer to court... but I have never been theough that process before so I can't say for sure?

Still takes time, and arbitration isn't all that scary, ao forcing them to arbitrate can also be a costly endeavor for them.

Re: Hertz Charging a Tesla Renter for Gas Was Not an Isolated Incident

#57

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Can you use a small claims court if the rental contract has mandatory binding arbitration clause?

You absolutely can. Now the company has to pay one of their lawyers ($$$) to show up, or the claim is a default judgement, which they have to pay. So the lawyer shows up and says blah blah mandatory binding arbitration. The judge can interrupt and say "don't care, judgement against, pay the man". Or the opposite, in which case at least you cost them more than they cost you. Which is why they probably take the default…

In the latter case, don't they then ask the judge/arbitrator to also award them legal fees if (when, really) they win?

Re: Hertz Charging a Tesla Renter for Gas Was Not an Isolated Incident

#58
post #48

Aside from charging to put gas in an EV, the amounts they are charging seem really high. How could filling a sedan with gas cost $200 to $400? That’s like 10x what the actual gas costs retail at the pump.

You're paying for convenience. The deal they make with you up front is that you get to not worry about the tank, but in return you pay a super inflated rate for the gas. Plus you pay for a full tank, even if you return it at 3/4 and it only takes a few gallons to fill it.

I get that some people just don't have the time (or executive function?) to deal with refilling before return on some trips, or they're so rich that they just don't care, but otherwise I just do not get why anyone would accept this option.

Re: Hertz Charging a Tesla Renter for Gas Was Not an Isolated Incident

#59

I wonder if this depends on the Hertz franchise location? I've rented EVs from Hertz at the Fort Lauderdale airport twice and had a great experience with things costing just what I expected. It was a great way to learn about EVs: my new car is a Volvo C40 mostly because I had such a good experience with a Polestar from Hertz.

I don't think "twice" is enough to be considered data in support of any point when we're talking about millions of total rentals. Even if they screw this up (intentionally or otherwise) with 10% of all rentals, you're still unlikely to have a problem with only two experiences.

Re: Hertz Charging a Tesla Renter for Gas Was Not an Isolated Incident

#60

Half of the stories about billing for unused gas are clearly just theft. Why do consumers have no recourse against companies that steal from them? If I made charges to someone's card for services that weren't rendered, I'd probably go to jail.

As a general rule, people stealing or otherwise breaking the law via companies get cut way more slack than random individuals. Like, Wells Fargo set up millions of fraudulent accounts for its customers, and zero people went to jail. Even if you accept the premise that upper level management somehow didn't know, a certain level of negligence should absolutely lead to prison time when the impact is this is large.

No prison time but one was prosecuted and sentenced to home confinement and community service...

>A former top Wells Fargo executive avoided prison time for her role in the bank’s sham accounts scandal, after a federal judge on Friday instead sentenced her to six months of home confinement and three years of probation. She was also ordered to pay a $100,000 fine and perform 120 hours of community service.

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