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OpenAI departures: Why can’t former employees talk?

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Re: OpenAI departures: Why can’t former employees talk?

#231

It's time to find a lawyer. I'm not one but there's an intersection with California SB 331, also known as “The Silenced No More Act”. while it is focused more on sexual harrasment, it's not limited to that, and these contracts may run afoul of that. https://silencednomore.org/the-silenced-no-more-act

This doesn’t seem to fall inside the scope of that act, according to the link you cited:

>” The Silenced No More Act bans confidentiality provisions in settlement agreements relating to the disclosure of underlying factual information relating to any type of harassment, discrimination or retaliation at work”

Re: OpenAI departures: Why can’t former employees talk?

#232
post #51
post #25

Earlier quoted context omitted.

"Legal" seems like a fuzzy line to OpenAI's leadership. Pushing unenforceable scare-copy to get employees to self-censor sounds on-brand.

I agree with Piper's point that these contracts aren't common in tech, but they're hardly unheard of. In 20 years of consulting work I've seen dozens of them. They're not uncommon . This doesn't look uniquely hostile or amoral for OpenAI, just garden-variety.

Contracts like this seem extremely unusual as a condition for _retaining already vested equity (or equity-like instruments)_, rather than as a condition for receiving additional severance. And how common are non-disclosure clauses that cover the non-disparagement clauses?

In fact both of those seem quite bad, both by regular industry standards, and even moreso as applied to OpenAI's specific situation.

Re: OpenAI departures: Why can’t former employees talk?

#233

So part of their compensation for working is equity, and when they leave thay have to sign an additional agreement in order to keep their previously earned compensation? How is this legal? Mine as well tell them they have to give all their money back too. What's the consideration for this contract?

> What's the consideration for this contract?

Consideration is almost meaningless as an obstacle here. They can give the other party a peppercorn, and that would be enough to count as consideration.

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Peppercorn_(law)

There might be other legal challenges here, but 'consideration' is unlikely to be one of them. Unless OpenAI has idiots for lawyers.

Re: OpenAI departures: Why can’t former employees talk?

#234

Non-disparagement clauses seem so petty and pathetic. Really? Your corporation is so fragile and thin-skinned that it can't even withstand someone saying mean words ? What's next? Forbidding ex-employees from sticking their tongue at you and saying "nyaa nyaa nyaa?"

This isn't about pettiness or thin skin. And it's not about mean words. It's about potential valid, corroborated criticism of misconduct.

They can totally deal with appearing petty and thin-skinned.

Re: OpenAI departures: Why can’t former employees talk?

#235
post #150

It's time to find a lawyer. I'm not one but there's an intersection with California SB 331, also known as “The Silenced No More Act”. while it is focused more on sexual harrasment, it's not limited to that, and these contracts may run afoul of that. https://silencednomore.org/the-silenced-no-more-act

Definitely an interesting way to expand existing legislation vs having a new piece of legislation altogether.

In practice, that's how a lot of laws are made. ('Laws' in the sense of rules that are actually enforced, not what's written down.)

Re: OpenAI departures: Why can’t former employees talk?

#236

It shouldn't be legal and maybe it isn't, but all schemes like this are, when you get down to it, ultimately about suppressing potential or actual evidence of serious, possibly criminal misconduct, so I don't think they are going to let the illegality get them all upset while they are having fun.

What crimes do you think have occurred here?

Re: OpenAI departures: Why can’t former employees talk?

#237
post #236

It shouldn't be legal and maybe it isn't, but all schemes like this are, when you get down to it, ultimately about suppressing potential or actual evidence of serious, possibly criminal misconduct, so I don't think they are going to let the illegality get them all upset while they are having fun.

What crimes do you think have occurred here?

An answer in the form of a question: why don't OpenAI executives want to talk about whether Sora was trained on Youtube content?

(I should reiterate that I actually wrote "serious, possibly criminal")

Re: OpenAI departures: Why can’t former employees talk?

#238
post #231

It's time to find a lawyer. I'm not one but there's an intersection with California SB 331, also known as “The Silenced No More Act”. while it is focused more on sexual harrasment, it's not limited to that, and these contracts may run afoul of that. https://silencednomore.org/the-silenced-no-more-act

This doesn’t seem to fall inside the scope of that act, according to the link you cited: > ” The Silenced No More Act bans confidentiality provisions in settlement agreements relating to the disclosure of underlying factual information relating to any type of harassment, discrimination or retaliation at work”

Sounds like retaliation to me.

Re: OpenAI departures: Why can’t former employees talk?

#239
I have some experience with rich people who think they can just put whatever they want in contracts and then stare at you until you sign it because you are physically dependent on eating food every day.

Turns out they're right, they can put whatever they want in a contract. And again, they are correct that their wage slaves will 99.99% of the time sign whatever paper he pushes in front of them while saying "as a condition of your continued employment, [...]".

But also it turns out that just because you signed something doesn't mean that's it. My friends (all of us young twenty-something software engineers much more familiar with transaction isolation semantics than with contract law) consulted with an attorney.

The TLDR is that:

- nothing in contract law is in perpetuity

- there MUST be consideration for each side (where "consideration" means getting something. something real. like USD. "continued employment" is not consideration.)

- if nothing is perpetual, then how long can it last supposing both sides do get ongoing consideration from it? the answer is, the judge will figure it out.

- and when it comes to employers and employees, the employee had damn well better be getting a good deal out of it, especially if you are trying to prevent the employee (or ex-employee) from working.

A common pattern ended up emerging: our employer would put something perpetual in the contract, and offer no consideration. Our attorney would tell us this isn't even a valid contract and not to worry about it. Employer would offer an employee some nominal amount of USD in severance and put something in perpetuity into the contract. Our attorney tells us the judge would likely use "blue ink rule" to add in "for a period of one year", or, it would be prorated based on the amount of money they were given relative to their former salary.

(I don't work there anymore, naturally).

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