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How to get 7th graders to smoke

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Re: How to get 7th graders to smoke

#241

Post by 1992spacemovie »

washadjeffmad wrote: post #126
1992spacemovie wrote: post #65

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> One night on the phone, I asked if she had any fantasies, and she immediately told me about how often she thought about being pregnant and doing everyday things- going to school, cleaning, going shopping, going to the doctor, etc. Unfathomably based.

She and the other Catholic girls were raised to believe the only thing in the world worse than being an unwed mother was to be a pregnant teenager, so they grew up with some complicated fixations. By their logic, they needed to experts in all the ways to be safe to prevent it from happening, but pre-internet, their info was a little dodgy. One summer, they had a "No boys in the hot tub, at all" rule. It took some con…

You made me chuckle at the hot tub rule - crazy what people will believe.

Re: How to get 7th graders to smoke

#242

Post by [deleted] »

rqtwteye wrote: post #183
Retric wrote: post #78

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I think people underestimate many illegal drugs because they don’t know long term users. Alcohol and Tobacco have minimal short term health risks. Most people throw up rather than OD on Alcohol. Obviously driving while fucked us is dangerous, but the same is true of a lot of drugs. Driving stoned is an underappreciated risk. LSD arguably the poster child for safe illegal drugs, but still physically risky due to peopl…

"but IMO it’s more dangerous than both Alcohol and Tobacco even as people claim otherwise." I could agree with tobacco but I don't believe LSD is more dangerous than alcohol. Most domestic violence, most fatal traffic accidents are under the influence of alcohol. It destroys families and communities. I don't see how LSD could be that damaging.

[deleted]

Re: How to get 7th graders to smoke

#243

Post by Retric »

Nursie wrote: post #182
Retric wrote: post #78

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I think people underestimate many illegal drugs because they don’t know long term users. Alcohol and Tobacco have minimal short term health risks. Most people throw up rather than OD on Alcohol. Obviously driving while fucked us is dangerous, but the same is true of a lot of drugs. Driving stoned is an underappreciated risk. LSD arguably the poster child for safe illegal drugs, but still physically risky due to peopl…

Your ideas about LSD being more dangerous than alcohol are not backed up by decent evidence. Alcohol use kills both acutely and chronically. Alcohol is addictive. Long term use cause mental health issues. LSD does not have the same health impacts and its lack of addiction potential gives it a significantly lower harm profile. Do yourself a favour and read some material published by domain experts (may I recommend “Dr…

I absolutely agree that on a per user basis Alcohol is more risky especially if you’re considering bystanders due to addiction and ease of access.

However, I’m looking at things from a per use basis because I’m not really attracted to drinking. So for me it’s about what risks are associated with drinking a beer vs dropping a tab vs smoking 1 more cigarette. Because people like me can choose to do some, all, or none of those things and it’s worth considering the risks on a per event basis.

Very few deaths are associated with LSD, but harm isn’t so binary. You can reasonably safely consume a lot of alcohol without issue, as in 1-3 beers a night for a decade, but daily LSD use at that level is another story.

Re: How to get 7th graders to smoke

#244

Post by bongodongobob »

hollywood_court wrote: post #227
bongodongobob wrote: post #225

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Currently hiding in my car smoking at work. I feel like a complete asshole.

I knew it was working for me when I didn't want anyone to ever see me smoking. I definitely didn't want my child to see me smoking. But first it was coworkers or in-laws and such.

I feel the same, I don't have any kids, but my friends do. Feels like shit. Any other advice or recommended reading? Smoker for 27 years.

Re: How to get 7th graders to smoke

#245

Post by Nursie »

Retric wrote: post #243
Nursie wrote: post #182

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Your ideas about LSD being more dangerous than alcohol are not backed up by decent evidence. Alcohol use kills both acutely and chronically. Alcohol is addictive. Long term use cause mental health issues. LSD does not have the same health impacts and its lack of addiction potential gives it a significantly lower harm profile. Do yourself a favour and read some material published by domain experts (may I recommend “Dr…

I absolutely agree that on a per user basis Alcohol is more risky especially if you’re considering bystanders due to addiction and ease of access. However, I’m looking at things from a per use basis because I’m not really attracted to drinking. So for me it’s about what risks are associated with drinking a beer vs dropping a tab vs smoking 1 more cigarette. Because people like me can choose to do some, all, or none o…

> However, I’m looking at things from a per use basis because I’m not really attracted to drinking. So for me it’s about what risks are associated with drinking a beer vs dropping a tab vs smoking 1 more cigarette.

This is not a useful metric at all, and is incredibly naive. Each of those activities carries with it the relative risks of addiction and long term harms. Your metric can lead to absurd conclusion that cigarettes are perfectly fine because nobody ever got cancer from having just one. The danger in tobacco is that people don't stop at just one.

> You can reasonably safely consume a lot of alcohol without issue, as in 1-3 beers a night for a decade

Some people can, but a significant minority of the people that try that will run into trouble and find their habit escalating. Even people like you who seem to think they are above addiction. And those who don't suffer addiction from that pattern will have increased their risk of cancer and various other diseases.

> but daily LSD use

Is so rare as to effectively constitute a complete fallacy of argument. That's the point, virtually nobody wants to use LSD on a daily basis, even amongst people who like and use LSD. Its risk profile is significantly lower than alcohol or tobacco as a result of that.

Seriously, go read up on this stuff, it's fascinating as well as enlightening.

Re: How to get 7th graders to smoke

#246

Post by Retric »

Nursie wrote: post #245
Retric wrote: post #243

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I absolutely agree that on a per user basis Alcohol is more risky especially if you’re considering bystanders due to addiction and ease of access. However, I’m looking at things from a per use basis because I’m not really attracted to drinking. So for me it’s about what risks are associated with drinking a beer vs dropping a tab vs smoking 1 more cigarette. Because people like me can choose to do some, all, or none o…

> However, I’m looking at things from a per use basis because I’m not really attracted to drinking. So for me it’s about what risks are associated with drinking a beer vs dropping a tab vs smoking 1 more cigarette. This is not a useful metric at all , and is incredibly naive. Each of those activities carries with it the relative risks of addiction and long term harms. Your metric can lead to absurd conclusion that ci…

> Even people like you who seem to think they are above addiction.

Personal experience but Alcohol, Tobacco, opioids etc and never felt the pull. I tried smoking for a little under a year but didn’t really care for it. Used to drink fairly regularly but just kind of got bored with it to the point a found out beer eventually goes bad in your fridge.

> Is rare

Ok that may be personal bias in terms of use. I remember one guy saying enough LSD could replace sleep and things didn’t go well for him or a lot of other people.

So yes, I knew quite a few people that used it daily, but though none were able to function long term like that. Dad and various friends were connected to Timothy Leary and that’s about as much as I am comfortable sharing.

Re: How to get 7th graders to smoke

#247

Post by ta_9390 »

> A big trial of mindfulness training in UK schools maybe made kids a bit more depressed, and two attempts to teach psychotherapy principles to students in Australia both failed.

I have always belived that the widespread of cheap psychological content aimed for average people is a mental-unhealthy plague and would only make them overconfident in judging their own and others mental health, this is why we see overuse of terms like bi-polar, trauma, narcissist etc.. in social media where teenagers are active.

Re: How to get 7th graders to smoke

#248

Post by Nursie »

Retric wrote: post #246
Nursie wrote: post #245

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> However, I’m looking at things from a per use basis because I’m not really attracted to drinking. So for me it’s about what risks are associated with drinking a beer vs dropping a tab vs smoking 1 more cigarette. This is not a useful metric at all , and is incredibly naive. Each of those activities carries with it the relative risks of addiction and long term harms. Your metric can lead to absurd conclusion that ci…

> Even people like you who seem to think they are above addiction. Personal experience but Alcohol, Tobacco, opioids etc and never felt the pull. I tried smoking for a little under a year but didn’t really care for it. Used to drink fairly regularly but just kind of got bored with it to the point a found out beer eventually goes bad in your fridge. > Is rare Ok that may be personal bias in terms of use. I remember on…

> Personal experience but ..

Sure, and that's your personal experience. If we were going by my personal experience we would get a different picture - that tobacco was highly addictive (though easy enough to quit in the end) but there was no issue at all with cocaine. Yet when we look at the harm profile of cocaine, we can see it's comparatively pretty bad and pulls people into spirals of addiction and self-destruction.

You can't really say "LSD is worse than booze" as a sweeping statement that you consider applies to everyone, and then use as justification your personal lack of issues with alcohol.

> I knew quite a few people that used it daily

No offence, but this is why the plural of anecdote is not data. Your sample bias here is extreme - people who were idealogically inclined to take acid daily as an almost pseudo-religious sacrament are not a representative sample.

Re: How to get 7th graders to smoke

#249

Post by amadeuspagel »

hn_throwaway_99 wrote: post #230
amadeuspagel wrote: post #199

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Not at all. The fact that it's hard to change yourself is itself part of the resistance against manipulation. It's a second layer of defense. Even if someone is able to manipulate your explicit beliefs, they still aren't able to manipulate your behaviour.

That's an unfalsifiable assertion/tautology that is basically a "not even wrong" statement. That is, you're basically asserting "If you try to change your behavior, but can't, it's because your explicit beliefs have been manipulated into thinking something that your body won't go along with." Well, how do you know? Seems like you're saying "Because your body would go along with it if your brain wasn't being manipulat…

I'm not sure about semaglutide, but drugs in general are a good example of my point, because people use them to change/manipulate others and themselves. For example LSD has been used by cults, by the CIA, etc..

Re: How to get 7th graders to smoke

#250

Post by FMecha »

andy99 wrote: post #2

I remember hearing rumors that tobacco companies funded anti-smoking campaigns because they realized it just made smoking look that much cooler. It's certainly easy to imagine a dual purpose ad that will appear positive and affirming to adults but super lame to kids and make them want to do the opposite.

Given that this was required by the Tobacco Master Settlement Agreement as pointed out, is it safe to say that the U.S. federal government accidentally mandated tobacco companies to make a brand-new form of youth smoking dogwhistle?
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