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How to get 7th graders to smoke

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Re: How to get 7th graders to smoke

#121

Post by bko »

patwolf wrote: post #22

This brought back memories of the D.A.R.E. officer coming to my elementary classroom to give us the "don't do drugs" speech. At the end of the speech with feigning hesitation he'd pull out the drug briefcase to the cheers of the kids, like a band holding out their best song for the encore. "This here is methamphetamine, aka crystal meth or speed. If you see a man running down the street with the strength of a bear, t…

Do you feel the same way about sex ed? In other words, is exposing children to sexual education actually encouraging them to have premarital or unsafe sex?

Re: How to get 7th graders to smoke

#122

Post by treflop »

nobleach wrote: post #5

Show them a Quentin Tarantino film? ...or any film for that matter where the main characters seem so "cool, unfazed and untouchable". To a young (mostly male) mind, that's the ultimate goal; to be in charge. For most beginning smokers, it's not about the inhalation of tobacco, but the subversive "screw the rules, those don't apply to me" façade. This might sound obvious but, if we want 7th graders not to glorify smok…

For me, the older kids doing cool things were smoking.

A bunch of actors smoking never did anything for me.

Re: How to get 7th graders to smoke

#123

Post by Clent »

jawns wrote: post #89
amadeuspagel wrote: post #9

The main reason that it's hard to change people is that they resist manipulation. This is hard to see if you only consider well-meaning attempts to change people, which you might not consider manipulation because that word has a negative connotation.

And yet ... look at how much manipulation happens at the political level. I find myself constantly wondering how people can be so gullible as to buy the drivel they're being fed.

This is a different form a manipulation.

No one is trying to change these people's behaviors. They are feeding them what they already want; reinforcing negative behaviors. That has always been very easy.

The relationship to today's political theatre is related to this discussion by comparing it to how easy it was to get everyone to smoke in the 1950's

Re: How to get 7th graders to smoke

#124

Post by arrowsmith »

Retric wrote: post #78
vundercind wrote: post #51

Earlier quoted context omitted.

The realization that almost all illegal drugs (heroin, meth, a handful like that that feel too good —probably exceptions) aren’t really in some much worse category than alcohol and nicotine, and that some are surely less-bad, even, was quite a revelation. Must be a shared experience for a lot of the DARE generation.

I think people underestimate many illegal drugs because they don’t know long term users. Alcohol and Tobacco have minimal short term health risks. Most people throw up rather than OD on Alcohol. Obviously driving while fucked us is dangerous, but the same is true of a lot of drugs. Driving stoned is an underappreciated risk. LSD arguably the poster child for safe illegal drugs, but still physically risky due to peopl…

> Alcohol [has] minimal short term health risks.

What on earth are you talking about? Alcohol can kill you in a single evening if you drink enough of it. How much shorter-term could its health risks be?

Re: How to get 7th graders to smoke

#125

Post by hn_throwaway_99 »

amadeuspagel wrote: post #9

The main reason that it's hard to change people is that they resist manipulation. This is hard to see if you only consider well-meaning attempts to change people, which you might not consider manipulation because that word has a negative connotation.

> The main reason that it's hard to change people is that they resist manipulation.

This seems flat out wrong to me given how extremely difficult it is for most people to change themselves. I guess on some level you could argue that people are "manipulating" themselves, but that seems a bit silly to me given how you are using the word manipulation.

It's hard to change people because humans are actually great at multiple forms of homeostasis. All research I've read has said that people's personalities are basically solidified from early childhood (i.e. age 5-6).

Re: How to get 7th graders to smoke

#126

Post by washadjeffmad »

1992spacemovie wrote: post #65
washadjeffmad wrote: post #61

Earlier quoted context omitted.

In high school, I had to "raise" a bag of flour for a week with a girl that I was dating as part of an assignment. One night on the phone, I asked if she had any fantasies, and she immediately told me about how often she thought about being pregnant and doing everyday things- going to school, cleaning, going shopping, going to the doctor, etc. It wasn't the type of fantasy I was expecting at the time, but I did event…

> One night on the phone, I asked if she had any fantasies, and she immediately told me about how often she thought about being pregnant and doing everyday things- going to school, cleaning, going shopping, going to the doctor, etc. Unfathomably based.

She and the other Catholic girls were raised to believe the only thing in the world worse than being an unwed mother was to be a pregnant teenager, so they grew up with some complicated fixations.

By their logic, they needed to experts in all the ways to be safe to prevent it from happening, but pre-internet, their info was a little dodgy. One summer, they had a "No boys in the hot tub, at all" rule. It took some convincing to get them to explain why, but someone had heard that sperm. could swim. in water.

...

And they'd just live in there, like goldfish? Did they need to be fed? Did they have maps?

That one was probably the most precious. They never really questioned how the aggressive little Olympians might end up there in the first place, and these girls could all drive.

Re: How to get 7th graders to smoke

#127

Post by Izkata »

13of40 wrote: post #27
patwolf wrote: post #22

This brought back memories of the D.A.R.E. officer coming to my elementary classroom to give us the "don't do drugs" speech. At the end of the speech with feigning hesitation he'd pull out the drug briefcase to the cheers of the kids, like a band holding out their best song for the encore. "This here is methamphetamine, aka crystal meth or speed. If you see a man running down the street with the strength of a bear, t…

I never attended a DARE class, but in the early 90s the t-shirts were everywhere so my memory of it was people wearing the shirts "ironically".

> so my memory of it was people wearing the shirts "ironically".

Drugs Are Really Enjoyable/Excellent

Re: How to get 7th graders to smoke

#128

Post by pxc »

Retric wrote: post #78
vundercind wrote: post #51

Earlier quoted context omitted.

The realization that almost all illegal drugs (heroin, meth, a handful like that that feel too good —probably exceptions) aren’t really in some much worse category than alcohol and nicotine, and that some are surely less-bad, even, was quite a revelation. Must be a shared experience for a lot of the DARE generation.

I think people underestimate many illegal drugs because they don’t know long term users. Alcohol and Tobacco have minimal short term health risks. Most people throw up rather than OD on Alcohol. Obviously driving while fucked us is dangerous, but the same is true of a lot of drugs. Driving stoned is an underappreciated risk. LSD arguably the poster child for safe illegal drugs, but still physically risky due to peopl…

> Most people throw up rather than OD on Alcohol.

If you take enough of a drug that it makes you throw up, you did overdose. 'Overdose' doesn't mean you died. Fatal overdoses just get talked about more than other overdoses because they're the most harmful kind of overdose.

Re: How to get 7th graders to smoke

#129

Post by Retric »

arrowsmith wrote: post #124
Retric wrote: post #78

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I think people underestimate many illegal drugs because they don’t know long term users. Alcohol and Tobacco have minimal short term health risks. Most people throw up rather than OD on Alcohol. Obviously driving while fucked us is dangerous, but the same is true of a lot of drugs. Driving stoned is an underappreciated risk. LSD arguably the poster child for safe illegal drugs, but still physically risky due to peopl…

> Alcohol [has] minimal short term health risks. What on earth are you talking about? Alcohol can kill you in a single evening if you drink enough of it. How much shorter-term could its health risks be?

Risk is severity of harm * probably of harm.

Of the ~3 million Americans that tried Alcohol for the first time in 2023 how many exactly died from an overdose that night? That’s what low risk looks like.

Re: How to get 7th graders to smoke

#130

Post by arrowsmith »

andy99 wrote: post #2

I remember hearing rumors that tobacco companies funded anti-smoking campaigns because they realized it just made smoking look that much cooler. It's certainly easy to imagine a dual purpose ad that will appear positive and affirming to adults but super lame to kids and make them want to do the opposite.

As parodied by South Park: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Hqglh7WoBz0
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