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New gel breaks down alcohol in the body

ethz.ch

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Re: New gel breaks down alcohol in the body

#231

Post by wubrr »

filleduchaos wrote: post #227
wubrr wrote: post #168

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> Addiction is a psychological disorder - it is not at all a matter of self-control. And self-control is not psychological? > people need to stop equating really liking something and being addicted to said thing. Self control is precisely the difference between really linking something and consuming a reasonable/healthy amount of it vs being addicted to it and overconsuming.

> And self-control is not psychological? The disorder that you dropped from "psychological" is actually semantically important, you know. > Self control is precisely the difference between really linking something and consuming a reasonable/healthy amount of it vs being addicted to it and overconsuming. If you were unable to get the hint from the other examples I gave, I'll be plain: you are terribly mistaken, addict…

> The disorder that you dropped from "psychological" is actually semantically important, you know.

Lack of self control can be described as a 'psychological disorder'. Also you completely avoided the actual question :) - maybe try answering it instead of playing semantics?

> I'll be plain: you are terribly mistaken, addiction is a disorder of the brain.

So you replaced 'phsycological disorder' with 'disorder of the brain'? That's supposed to make your point less pointless?

> What moral failing do you assume people with mood or anxiety disorders have?

Again, nowhere did I mention the word 'moral'. Try to address what I actually said instead of imagining strawmen in every comment.

> If you were unable to get the hint from the other examples I gave

No, I didn't get any 'hint' from your pointless examples. You see, I try to read what you said directly and respond directly, without any imagined 'hints', strawmen, or meaningless semantic games around vague and ambiguous terms.

Re: New gel breaks down alcohol in the body

#232

Post by hylaride »

kijin wrote: post #174
filleduchaos wrote: post #147

Earlier quoted context omitted.

A reliable way to prevent hangovers in my experience is to simply pace yourself properly as well as eat and drink plenty of water. People go out partying on near-empty stomachs and take crazy amounts of alcoholic drinks with not so much as a drop of water all night; it's no surprise that their bodies react that extremely. Also, sticking to drinks with low levels of congeners helps immensely. Ethanol is already toxic…

I wonder if there's scientific consensus on how much water is "plenty". Like, what's the ABV I should target, averaged over every type of liquid I drank that night? Regular beer contains about 20x as much water as it does ethanol (by volume), but apparently that's not enough. It's certainly better than wine, though, which only contains 6-8x the water and an entire catalogue of congeners.

The issue isn't necessarily water ingestion, but that alcohol messes with the body's ability to absorb it to where it's needed. If you're consuming high amounts of alcohol and water, and enough alcohol nonetheless builds up, the ability to absorb water goes down. It's one reason why you pee more when drinking.

I could see drinking water, then sobering up, and going to sleep could mean water could then be absorbed. That may limit the effects of the dehydration and therefore the hangover.

Also your body's overall health and efficiency probably pays a role. In my teens/20s I could get sloshed and wake up with merely a vague discomfort. In my 30s I started to get actual hangovers. In my 40s its now just awful almost no matter what I do.

On the plus side, I'm saving money drinking less in general...

Re: New gel breaks down alcohol in the body

#233

Post by try_the_bass »

deelowe wrote: post #122
KittenInABox wrote: post #119

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> Self-control is like a muscle: exercise it frequently, and it gets stronger. It also gets tired and needs rest, and it atrophies with disuse. Addiction is not a matter of self-control.

Few things are. The world would be a better place if people would try to help each other more.

Wanting people to understand that they can improve their own self-control is trying to help them. With more self-control comes more agency and more control over one's own outcomes.

How is that being spun as a bad thing? I don't understand how we've reached a point that it's considered more "helpful" to teach people they have no control over their actions, rather than helping them gain more control over those actions?

Re: New gel breaks down alcohol in the body

#234

Post by try_the_bass »

filleduchaos wrote: post #148
wubrr wrote: post #123

Earlier quoted context omitted.

It's 100% a matter of self-control.

Addiction is a psychological disorder - it is not at all a matter of self-control. Just as being sad is not the same thing as being clinically depressed, and worrying about a review is not the same thing as having an anxiety disorder, people need to stop equating really liking something and being addicted to said thing.

This is such a false dichotomy. Even if you assume addiction can be a disease, self-control is still absolutely an element in overcoming it.

It's also not necessarily an either/or thing, and the existence of people who have broken addictions through exercise of their own self-control completely dismantles your black-and-white argument.

Re: New gel breaks down alcohol in the body

#235

Post by nsvd »

kijin wrote: post #174
filleduchaos wrote: post #147

Earlier quoted context omitted.

A reliable way to prevent hangovers in my experience is to simply pace yourself properly as well as eat and drink plenty of water. People go out partying on near-empty stomachs and take crazy amounts of alcoholic drinks with not so much as a drop of water all night; it's no surprise that their bodies react that extremely. Also, sticking to drinks with low levels of congeners helps immensely. Ethanol is already toxic…

I wonder if there's scientific consensus on how much water is "plenty". Like, what's the ABV I should target, averaged over every type of liquid I drank that night? Regular beer contains about 20x as much water as it does ethanol (by volume), but apparently that's not enough. It's certainly better than wine, though, which only contains 6-8x the water and an entire catalogue of congeners.

Common rule of thumb I've always heard is one (8oz) glass of water per beer drank. It works well for me although I never have more than 3-4 anyways.

Re: New gel breaks down alcohol in the body

#236

Post by James_K »

chefandy wrote: post #125
James_K wrote: post #114

Alcohol-free drinks already exist. They're a much easier sell than alcoholic drinks + some weird gel.

Yes: I also think we must vocally, expressly reject anything that I don't find to be completely necessary. Other use cases == doing it wrong.

You are so sarcastic here it is impossible to glean any genuine critique of my position. If this stuff catches on and in 10 years we're all eating strange chemical gel after a round of drinks, I'll hand it to you. I just don't think that will happen.

Re: New gel breaks down alcohol in the body

#237

Post by James_K »

_djo_ wrote: post #115
James_K wrote: post #114

Alcohol-free drinks already exist. They're a much easier sell than alcoholic drinks + some weird gel.

Maybe, but so what? If this enables people to have a few drinks after work in the evening and be fully sober for work the next day, I’m all for it. Also, anything that can rapidly break down alcohol in the body will help as a medical treatment for alcohol overdoses.

You can have a few drinks and not get drunk because the alcohol is broken down before it reaches your blood. In other words you can have a couple of alcahol-free drinks where the alcahol is removed from your stomach by strange gel product.

Re: New gel breaks down alcohol in the body

#238

Post by James_K »

hi-v-rocknroll wrote: post #120
James_K wrote: post #114

Alcohol-free drinks already exist. They're a much easier sell than alcoholic drinks + some weird gel.

This seems to be useful for people who are either allergic to alcohol or who are trying to keep up or competitively pressure others into intoxication. Otherwise, it would be wiser to just avoid EtOH that has no safe lower intake threshold and is conspicuously expensive.

I don't think this would help anyone with an alcahol allergy, since you are still consuming alcahol.

Re: New gel breaks down alcohol in the body

#239

Post by cormalzo »

somesortofthing wrote: post #117
TacticalCoder wrote: post #34

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> Something to sober you up if you're already drunk would be amazing ... But it's the fun of alcohol! What'd be amazing would be something that really works against the headaches and/or prevent vomiting. Basically something for the next day or even the next two days (when you get old, if you party too hard it can take two days to feel good again: I hate it so at 50 I very rarely party hard anymore: maybe once a year)…

I have really awful genetics for drinking(I'm 23 and already experience the thing you're describing with taking multiple days to feel good again, and instead of physical symptoms I get crushing depression) so I'd love to just take some of this stuff before a night out to drink the same volume as other people without having to deal with the aftereffects.

just made an account to chime in, I also experience this immense depression after drinking so you're not alone, will probably quit altogether before too long.

Re: New gel breaks down alcohol in the body

#240

Post by maeil »

pcl wrote: post #198
maeil wrote: post #188

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I'm sure I'm not the only one who just really enjoys the taste of alcohol and would love a way to drink more of it without its effects, both the "positive" and the negative side. It's genuinely one of my big wishes! I'd pay 5x the normal price for a bottle of whisky that neither has the "good" nor "bad" parts, as if it was water but with the same taste.

I don’t think they do whiskey yet, but ISH Spirits makes some tasty alcohol free products. https://ishspirits.com/

Unless I'm missing something, that just seems like standard non-alcoholic drinks. Which miss the key flavour ingredient I'm talking about - the alcohol! The way it tingles your mouth, the warmth as it goes down, it completely changes the taste profile. Chemistry is not my strong suit so I have no idea if there's any substitutes that could be used to mimic this but without the health effects (good/bad), but until then, nothing nonalcoholic will taste anything like a spirit.
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