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Metabolism of autism reveals developmental origins

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Re: Metabolism of autism reveals developmental origins

#321

Post by wizzwizz4 »

squigz wrote: post #313
wizzwizz4 wrote: post #310

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> They were not simply asking a question - in that case, they could've dropped the second part, which had exactly the same implication as my sarcastic reply. The intended implication was that the typical "parents of" Facebook group does not count as an autistic community. In my experience, the alleged "autistic community" has always turned out to be something of that nature, but I've only found that out after a lengt…

Well I do appreciate you making my point quite clearly for me.

I thought your point was about your opinions being invalidated and ignored, but now I don't think I know what your point is.

You identified a problem. I questioned whether it was real. You, obliquely, affirmed that it was, but did not provide enough information for anyone (not already in the loop) to address it. Therefore, I spent an hour giving you enough information to begin addressing it from your end. What point does that make?

Re: Metabolism of autism reveals developmental origins

#322

Post by whimsicalism »

pseudalopex wrote: post #160
whimsicalism wrote: post #26

Earlier quoted context omitted.

frankly, this will continue as long as performance-enhancing drugs and accommodations are gated behind diagnoses

What performance enhancing drugs are prescribed for autism?

i thought we prescribed adderall for autism, but i guess cross-diagnoses are just so common nowadays that i didn’t realize what it was being prescribed for among people i know

Re: Metabolism of autism reveals developmental origins

#323

Post by somenameforme »

ModernMech wrote: post #319
somenameforme wrote: post #303

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Why do you think things like astrology persisted for so long? If not for the Church (which banned astrological prediction as blasphemous contradicting religious belief in self determination), it'd almost certainly still be with us. In fact when founding modern psychology Jung was heavily influenced by astrology. See - astrological psychology. [1] And his earliest work was with schizophrenia, from which the invention…

Yes all people are weird, and autistic people are people, so it's no surprise they are weird. I don't think this is a failing of Western imagination, I'm not sure who gave you this impression. Autism isn't about being weird or quirky though -- it's a developmental disorder and the behaviors associated with it are disabling in our society. This is characterize as having "significant impact" on ability to function.

Well, no. Many of the behaviors associated with it, even the literal diagnostic criteria, are extremely beneficial in our society. It's not just a weird coincidence that many of the most successful tech, engineering and even business figures could be (and in multiple cases have been) diagnosed with autism of varying degrees, notably post-facto.

If anything I think the rampant over-diagnoses of middling cases is itself extremely harmful. Because it's going to lead otherwise perfectly viable humans to think that things are just out of their control because they have whatever the trending diagnoses in psychology is, and a diagnoses of failure becomes a self fulfilling prophecy. Suicide rates among those diagnosed with ASD, while having at least average intelligence, are ridiculously high. [2] Whatever is happening with these diagnoses is not this self affirmation bs people are spewing.

A bit more than a hundred years ago we'd have been having this topic, with the context of phrenology [1]. A nice little quote from that page: "Phrenology has been psychology's great faux pas. — J.C. Flugel (1933)." And so too will autism be. Until soon enough we might start to accept that psychology is not just a pseudo-science, but an exceptionally destructive one at that.

[1] - https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Phrenology

[2] - https://sparkforautism.org/discover_article/autism-suicide-r...

Re: Metabolism of autism reveals developmental origins

#324

Post by zwaps »

robocat wrote: post #153
zwaps wrote: post #134

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Why not ask autistic people Have you ever even seen someone with severe autism?

Strongly yes as per other comment: https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=40329772

In no way would I claim that the person does not have severe autism - but it is someone who consented to marriage.

What I mean is a person where this would never ever happen.

Re: Metabolism of autism reveals developmental origins

#325

Post by AnthonyMouse »

giantg2 wrote: post #291
AnthonyMouse wrote: post #185

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> We already require this for people with seizures, for people needing glasses to wear them, etc. But then you have the same problem against something which is much harder to measure. Many people have glasses even though their vision is mostly fine and it's perfectly reasonable to drive without them, the glasses just make things slightly more focused. Other people are effectively blind without corrective lenses. ADHD…

The easy thing to measure with it is how many accidents are attributed to the person in a given time period. If you have 5 accidents including totalling 3 cars in the last 2 years of high school, you shouldn't be driving.

That doesn't actually tell you anything. Someone who drives 100,000 miles/year at the same level of safety would have 20 times more accidents in the same period of time than someone who drives 5000 miles/year. Certain areas have more traffic or are otherwise more prone to accidents. 5 is not a large enough statistical sample to know if someone is the cause or just unlucky.

Re: Metabolism of autism reveals developmental origins

#326

Post by squigz »

wizzwizz4 wrote: post #321
squigz wrote: post #313

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Well I do appreciate you making my point quite clearly for me.

I thought your point was about your opinions being invalidated and ignored, but now I don't think I know what your point is. You identified a problem. I questioned whether it was real. You, obliquely, affirmed that it was, but did not provide enough information for anyone (not already in the loop) to address it. Therefore, I spent an hour giving you enough information to begin addressing it from your end. What point…

You spent an hour comparing my desire not to want to suffer for the rest of my life... with eugenics.

Re: Metabolism of autism reveals developmental origins

#327

Post by viraptor »

zazazache wrote: post #248

As some one who is let’s say “autism adjacent” it really bothers me when people discuss a cure or prevention. I mean I get it, but this is also who I am and I wouldn’t want to be someone else.

Nobody's forcing you to get a cure. But denying it to others is a really weird idea. Until we can tell apart kids who will develop fun quirks from those who won't be able to live independently, prevention doesn't sound bad either.

Re: Metabolism of autism reveals developmental origins

#328

Post by viraptor »

ModernMech wrote: post #312
MagicMoonlight wrote: post #305

Earlier quoted context omitted.

We get that same argument from deaf people… so they stop deaf babies from getting their hearing corrected at birth and they firebomb the clinics. They say it’s basically the holocaust because you’re exterminating deaf people by curing them. Do you support their views?

I am not familiar with the deaf community nor the controversy surrounding curing deafness. If you're asking me if I support firebombing clinics, no. I don't know what incident you're referring to. I looked up some info and I find the issue to be far more complicated than you've summarized. One thing I note is that 90% of deaf children are born to hearing parents. They are making a decision about implants for an infan…

> But I don't exactly see why hearing people are deciding that they must "cure" their child's deafness.

Because past some age, you can't meaningfully learn to use hearing for communication anymore. You can choose to lose hearing as an adult if you really want to. But only if you were given the opportunity to have it in the first place as a child.

Re: Metabolism of autism reveals developmental origins

#329

Post by wizzwizz4 »

squigz wrote: post #326
wizzwizz4 wrote: post #321

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I thought your point was about your opinions being invalidated and ignored, but now I don't think I know what your point is. You identified a problem. I questioned whether it was real. You, obliquely, affirmed that it was, but did not provide enough information for anyone (not already in the loop) to address it. Therefore, I spent an hour giving you enough information to begin addressing it from your end. What point…

You spent an hour comparing my desire not to want to suffer for the rest of my life... with eugenics.

… Yeah, I see how you could take that away from it. Thanks for explaining.

There are treatments for specific issues associated with autism (e.g. ADHD medication, noise-filtering headphones, AAC tools), but autism is a form of human polymorphism. Like allism and situs inversus, it's a developmental condition, so any research programmes with the capacity to "cure" autism are eugenics research programmes. That's a literal description, not a normative one.

Your desire to avoid suffering is independent of this fact. It's a very much understandable desire, and almost universal among humans. If you make the distinction clear, then well-meaning people won't attack you for expressing that desire. (This has nothing to do with eugenics.) Queer and autistic communities are usually quite big about the right to self-modify.

If you face exclusion or opposition even when it's clear you're talking about your desire to have something available for yourself, and not advocating for a particular approach to be taken (within the context of our sociopolitical environment), I would like to be made aware – ideally with details –, because that's the sort of thing I care about putting a stop to.

Fwiw, I am very, very sad that modern humans cannot be trusted with eugenics. I would like it if that option were available to you. You are not wrong for wanting it. But in the world we currently live in, it's not worth it.

Re: Metabolism of autism reveals developmental origins

#330

Post by squigz »

wizzwizz4 wrote: post #329
squigz wrote: post #326

Earlier quoted context omitted.

You spent an hour comparing my desire not to want to suffer for the rest of my life... with eugenics.

… Yeah, I see how you could take that away from it. Thanks for explaining. There are treatments for specific issues associated with autism (e.g. ADHD medication, noise-filtering headphones, AAC tools), but autism is a form of human polymorphism. Like allism and situs inversus, it's a developmental condition, so any research programmes with the capacity to "cure" autism are eugenics research programmes. That's a liter…

I'm also extremely visually impaired, so I'm curious: does advocating for "curing" blindness also mean advocating for eugenics?
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