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Metabolism of autism reveals developmental origins

medicalxpress.com

161–170 of 358 posts

Re: Metabolism of autism reveals developmental origins

#161

"Prevention strategies" As an autistic person, no thanks. Let people be autistic.

If you don't mind being on the spectrum, that's great for you. Some of us are looking forward to more research like this. Many of us don't want to go through this struggle forever, or make another generation go through it, all while waiting for society to get its shit together and completely reorient itself to be neurodivergent-friendly? No thanks.

Re: Metabolism of autism reveals developmental origins

#162

Earlier quoted context omitted.

This is about people diagnosed before the age of 5, they're almost all cases of severe autism. That's very different from the kind of autism you're talking about. People who are permanently unable to live independently have a condition that should be prevented if possible.

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No, 10% - 20%.

The article says:

> For the majority of people with ASD, the condition is a significant disability, with only 10–20% of children diagnosed before 5 years of age able to live independently as adults.

Re: Metabolism of autism reveals developmental origins

#163

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Anecdotal, but we grow a heritage strain of wheat here in PHX (Sonoran White). Its appearance gives me pause. Common commercial wheat is very short in comparison. I have a friend who can’t eat “common” wheat products from the grocery store, having been diagnosed with severe gluten intolerance, but can eat Sonoran White without symptoms. You can follow the same exact recipe but substitute Sonoran White flour for stand…

> I strongly suspect that, over the next 100 years, we are going to find that we’ve been waging war on the human biome through food preservatives and environmental contaminants. And that many common chronic disorders/illnesses (including ADHD, Autism, weight gain, etc) in our generation are actually attributable to a disfunctioning microbiome. I suspect you're very right, and I further suspect that there's already re…

I fully intend to get my new kid on Kimchi once he moves to solid food-eating.

Re: Metabolism of autism reveals developmental origins

#164

Earlier quoted context omitted.

This is about people diagnosed before the age of 5, they're almost all cases of severe autism. That's very different from the kind of autism you're talking about. People who are permanently unable to live independently have a condition that should be prevented if possible.

As a spectrum, autism presents in many ways, but it's all considered "autism" at this point. There are not different "kinds". Sometimes "severe" autism at an early age calms down as a person grows. Sometimes "mild" autism gets worse as someone becomes dysregulated and overstimulated. Many times autism is missed in women and POC because they mask more readily than boys. Sometimes it's missed in boys because it's expla…

I have autism myself and so do both my kids, I would love it if there was some way to lessen it. It's a great hindrance for me, all the time I want to do things that I feel I should be able to do, but then run into various walls.

My children (15 and 10) are learning about themselves but they haven't found an advantage of their autism yet.

But, we function well enough, I can hold down jobs and so will they, it's a set of things we're not good at but we can deal.

The severe cases I know, I have never heard them utter a word, or leave the house on their own. They live in a world inside their heads. I really can't see what they have as the same as what I have.

Re: Metabolism of autism reveals developmental origins

#165

Earlier quoted context omitted.

This is like asking where to draw the line when somebody is bald. Are you bald if you have 1 hair? Yes. 2? 3? 137? There's of course reasonable room for discretion in saying what is or isn't bald. But it isn't reasonable to say somebody with a full-on afro is on the spectrum of being bald. Literally some of the most high functioning and successful individuals are being diagnosed as "on the spectrum" of what is, in it…

Many people are on the balding spectrum.

You could say that we all lose our hair eventually. Some of us are just temporarily hirsute.

Re: Metabolism of autism reveals developmental origins

#166

Earlier quoted context omitted.

If you ask the majority of people if somebody who they do not perceive as engaging in autisitic behaviours, and was not diagnosed as autistic, but considers themselves autistic, is autistic, they will say no. Scientifically (which how it’s defined in the OP), it’s not defined by psychiatrist appraisal and self-assessment plays no necessary role in the process and alone holds no diagnostic validity. We can also invert…

I’m not sure what point you are making with this reply. I’m late/adult self-identifying autistic. I’ve done this with some of the standard tests that psychiatrists use, attended workgroups related to the topic, and studied extensively. Self-diagnosis is highly accurate for autism, both for positive and negative evaluations. I am also pursuing a formal diagnosis because so many people downplay it when I tell them I’m…

>Self-diagnosis is highly accurate for autism, both for positive and negative evaluations.

I've also gone into autism communities before and declared that I had self-undiagnosed myself with autism, which is something I've desired recently, to re-diagnose myself as not being autistic and either having nothing or ADHD. This was totally rejected, and repeatedly brought up was my admittance to a lengthy period of diagnosis, overseen my multiple doctors, from a very young age, which all were seen as evidence of the validity of my diagnosis (conversely, I'd presume, they treat the opposite as more less valid or invalid). Interestingly the same people generally accepted diagnosis, but to reject a diagnosis, well that was beyond the pale and denialism. I brought up the same to a psychiatrist, saying I wanted to be treated by a psychiatrist for ADHD and NOT autism because I believe it will lead to superior outcomes. They blew me off, exasperated, saying that any psychiatrist would simply observe my symptoms and deem me autistic and treat me that way no matter what I did, denying that I even had the capability or possibility to receive treatment which was not based on the premise that I was autistic. Metabolic testing and self-diagnosis be damned.

Just this moment I'm in the process of seeking accommodations. I self reported autistic symptoms to my employer. In the past, during interviews they have accepted my diagnosis and pledged to "accommodate" me accordingly, and I was ticked off as a diversity hire. They asked me to verify such symptoms with a doctor. They subsequently said they reserve the right to an independent psychological assessment of myself or my records. This is very pleasing to me, as either I shall receive accommodations and an affirmation that I am autistic, or my undiagnosis, which is truly a win-win.

If I was in family court, and it was argued that I was unable to say take care of children because I'm autistic, I could not successfully object on the grounds that "I'm not autistic".

Yet my observation is what is considered the true measure of somebodies autisticness, the validity of their diagnosis and their symptoms, is independent psychological assessments by an examiner not beholden to your own self-assessment. I theorise this is both because of a lack of faith in the competence of either of us to assess an autism diagnosis, as well as a lack of faith in our objectivity. I've met a number of self-diagnosed people who are shy about disclosure or asking for accommodation BECAUSE they are self-diagnosed, and while obviously believing in the reality of their autism, are either self-sceptical or believe in others scepticism to a degree not commonly seen in those medically diagnosed.

I don't mean to be exclusionary or gatekeeping, just descriptive of what I believe to be social/political/legal/scientific reality. I don't like that things are this way, I'm aware that hilariously I've never seen ANY evidence that suggests physician diagnosis is more accurate than self-diagnosis, I'm aware of the many historical problems with physician diagnosis, I merely believe that they ARE this way.

Re: Metabolism of autism reveals developmental origins

#167
post #3

Actual paper: https://www.nature.com/articles/s42003-024-06102-y

So there is a clear result found and then post hoc there is an explanation made for why this makes sense. That's a bit of a red flag since you preferably hypothesize first, but let's look at the analysis. If I'm not mistaken, then these are the most important parts: - 467 measured metabolites (features) - 136 males and 69 females = 205 (data points) - "To minimize overfitting, only correlations with q values Then the…

> So there is a clear result found and then post hoc there is an explanation made for why this makes sense. That's a bit of a red flag since you preferably hypothesize first, but let's look at the analysis.

Eh, this doesn’t look to be a P-hacking attempt. Scientific exploration doesn’t always hit the hypothesis first model. Ideally this paper should be a source of future specific hypothesis and experiments. Though, IMHO, their implicit hypothesis is that metabolism is a core feature of ASD.

The points about the predictive power in fig 3 are interesting.

Re: Metabolism of autism reveals developmental origins

#168
post #159

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Anecdotal, but we grow a heritage strain of wheat here in PHX (Sonoran White). Its appearance gives me pause. Common commercial wheat is very short in comparison. I have a friend who can’t eat “common” wheat products from the grocery store, having been diagnosed with severe gluten intolerance, but can eat Sonoran White without symptoms. You can follow the same exact recipe but substitute Sonoran White flour for stand…

> And that many common chronic disorders/illnesses (including ADHD, Autism, weight gain, etc) in our generation are actually attributable to a disfunctioning microbiome All of those things have existed for ... ever

They have.

But I do not believe they were as common prior to the 1960s as they are in the 2020s.

Re: Metabolism of autism reveals developmental origins

#169

Autism is rooted during fetal brain development. Behavioural and metabolic changes show up later. There is no an egg and chicken problem. The primary disease starts in the CNS and everything else follows

How do you know that?

Schizophrenia, Alzheimer's, Parkinson's have links with the gut too. But I "know" they start from the brain. No advanced or complicated hypothesis

Re: Metabolism of autism reveals developmental origins

#170
post #114
post #14

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I'm not sure I understand the quote.

It’s a quote about how some people stop living their lives long before their body dies. https://quoteinvestigator.com/2021/11/03/not-buried/

But what does the have to do with Autism? That quote seems to be more about people not finding fulfillment/confirming to social expectations/wasting their lives vs. a neurodevelopmental disorder.
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