Hacker News Board Hacker News, browsed like a classic message board
Live data from Hacker News

Tesla is being investigated for securities and wire fraud for self-driving claim

theverge.com

Post reply on HN
Print view View original

151–160 of 189 posts

Re: Tesla is being investigated for securities and wire fraud for self-driving claim

#151

Post by fuzzythinker »

bagels wrote: post #74
adrr wrote: post #13

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I purchased FSD in 2019 on the promise of self driving. 5 years later and still no self driving. There was also the promise of the car being able to self park. I would be happy if I got my money back for a feature that was never delivered.

I couldn't imagine paying $12,000 for technology that didn't exist, from someone who repeatedly lied about that technology existing.

That is true for those who paid in recent 2-3 years. You can't say that for those who paid 3+ years ago.

Re: Tesla is being investigated for securities and wire fraud for self-driving claim

#152

Post by piva00 »

slashdev wrote: post #125
_akhe wrote: post #2

Securities fraud again, funny that the guy who "bought Twitter" and shut down free speech ended up getting sued himself due to his own tweet (lying about # of Teslas being produced). It's like a bully trying to chase someone but tripping over their shoelace in the first step, love it. On self-driving: For several years the guy has been saying "next month" "next year" it's been like 10+ years at this point. He's a big…

1) Linking to Tweets still exists, and doesn't require that you're logged in to view them. 2) According to their own released numbers (which you may or may not trust), the usage of the platform is at a record high. 3) They've unbanned many accounts that were previously banned and seem to display a wider tolerance for free speech on the platform. The innovative community notes feature is sometimes helpful to point out…

> 4) They've pushed back on various foriegn governments requesting data on users and requesting users or posts be banned (see the ongoing dispute with Brazil.)

But not in India, nor Turkey, there Twitter under Musk has abided by the requests to silence people.

Why is that is a good question, it could be political alignment (Modi and Erdogan are from a different political stance than Lula), it could be because Musk seeks to exploit Brazil's lithium, we can't know but he's been pretty selective in where to pick a fight so we can only assume is due to other circumstances than anything to do with freedom of speech.

Re: Tesla is being investigated for securities and wire fraud for self-driving claim

#153

Post by adrr »

misiti3780 wrote: post #54
bilsbie wrote: post #28

The latest self driving is getting really good. My main problem is being a front seat driver and taking action because I’m not sure of it’s thought process but it ends up getting things correct. I think all these systems* could benefit from earlier braking to give the “supervisor” more piece of mind. * including my wife in this.

agree, half the people in this thread havnt used it. i think it's probably clear to most FSD testers that end-to-end NN trained on video will get you L5 eventually.

I have it. I don’t know how it can be L5 when the cameras get blinded by the sun in the morning and evening. Or when it rains too hard.

It also picked up the mannerisms of human drivers like hitting the brakes at a yellow light and then accelerating and in my case tried to run a red.

Re: Tesla is being investigated for securities and wire fraud for self-driving claim

#154

Post by jimmydddd »

ok123456 wrote: post #148
JumpCrisscross wrote: post #145

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> "Insider trading" doesn't have a well defined boundary Correct. In our courts it’s ambiguously defined. Colloquially, Stewart got a tip-off that arose from the non-public outcome of a drug trial. Whether she committed insider trading is open; whether she traded—knowingly or unknowingly—on material non-public information is pretty clear.

It was third-party hearsay. The stock tip came from her stock broker, who also happened to handle transactions for people with inside knowledge. The broker didn't know the details about the FDA trials, only the movement some of his clients were making. This is why she wasn't tried on insider trading, but instead on the story she made up to cover the fact that she was given this knowledge indirectly.

Agreed. I don't think she knowingly insider traded. After the fact, the authorities were going after her broker and she erased a voice mail message to protect the broker. They were upset that she deleted evidence and went after her because she was high profile.

Re: Tesla is being investigated for securities and wire fraud for self-driving claim

#155

Post by trog »

lolc wrote: post #66
Firaxus wrote: post #11

Earlier quoted context omitted.

As someone with a tesla and with a parent who bought the fsd beta package, I’d be very interested if there’s some kind of payout for consumers/customers!

There was this thread[0] around here about one buyer of FSD who took Tesla to small claims court and Tesla settled with them. Looks like it's easy enough to do. It's just that Tesla demands gag clauses in the settlement which may be accepted by many people and we might never know how many settlements are out there. Thankfully the author in this instance knew they were going to win and there would be no gag clauses th…

I don't know if there are still a lot of Tesla shorts, but I wonder if they could offer to fund one of these settlements and then pay for any fines for the person to then breach the gag order. Maybe there are not enough FSD customers for this to have a material impact in terms of dollars but I'd have to think it would impact reputation.

Re: Tesla is being investigated for securities and wire fraud for self-driving claim

#156

Post by JumpCrisscross »

jimmydddd wrote: post #154
ok123456 wrote: post #148

Earlier quoted context omitted.

It was third-party hearsay. The stock tip came from her stock broker, who also happened to handle transactions for people with inside knowledge. The broker didn't know the details about the FDA trials, only the movement some of his clients were making. This is why she wasn't tried on insider trading, but instead on the story she made up to cover the fact that she was given this knowledge indirectly.

Agreed. I don't think she knowingly insider traded. After the fact, the authorities were going after her broker and she erased a voice mail message to protect the broker. They were upset that she deleted evidence and went after her because she was high profile.

> were upset that she deleted evidence and went after her because she was high profile

She also previously held securities licenses. That takes entire categories of innocent error out of the picture. I hold securities licenses. I’d be held to a higher standard because plausible deniability is removed.

Re: Tesla is being investigated for securities and wire fraud for self-driving claim

#157

Post by itsoktocry »

LeifCarrotson wrote: post #56
itsoktocry wrote: post #38

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> A certain founder should be doing some hard time for ludicrous claims over the past 8 years. I don't think "hard time" is appropriate for white collar crimes. Money is how you speak to these people. Martha Stewart is still worth hundreds of millions of dollars.

Hard time costs humans the same amount whether they're rich or poor - insofar as the justice system is equally accessible and you can't just lawyer your way out if wealthy or get screwed by a disinterested public defender if poor, of course. Money is amoral. It quickly becomes a calculation of ROI to violate the law. We've been reluctant for some reason to index fines against the wealth of the offender, but what woul…

>Money is amoral. It quickly becomes a calculation of ROI to violate the law.

You're describing the current system.

Re: Tesla is being investigated for securities and wire fraud for self-driving claim

#158

Post by itsoktocry »

ornornor wrote: post #49
itsoktocry wrote: post #38

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> A certain founder should be doing some hard time for ludicrous claims over the past 8 years. I don't think "hard time" is appropriate for white collar crimes. Money is how you speak to these people. Martha Stewart is still worth hundreds of millions of dollars.

What’s money when you have billions? Isn’t jail worse then? I’d be prepared to pay a very large amount if it meant I could avoid going to jail. There is a much much much smaller amount (if any) of jail I’d accept in return for money.

>What’s money when you have billions?

You take the billions.

Re: Tesla is being investigated for securities and wire fraud for self-driving claim

#159

Post by itsoktocry »

tyree731 wrote: post #52
itsoktocry wrote: post #38

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> A certain founder should be doing some hard time for ludicrous claims over the past 8 years. I don't think "hard time" is appropriate for white collar crimes. Money is how you speak to these people. Martha Stewart is still worth hundreds of millions of dollars.

Strongly disagree with both claims. Fraud of a sufficient degree causes harm at a scale that is equivalent (in economic terms at least) to the consequences of murder. And jail time absolutely speaks to wealthy people, given the amount of money and effort wealthy people will spend defending themselves to avoid it.

>Fraud of a sufficient degree causes harm at a scale that is equivalent (in economic terms at least) to the consequences of murder.

This is ridiculous, practically and morally.

Someone losing their life is far worse than a billion people being defrauded of $10 each, regardless of how the economists decide to value a human.

Re: Tesla is being investigated for securities and wire fraud for self-driving claim

#160

Post by itsoktocry »

rtkwe wrote: post #65
itsoktocry wrote: post #38

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> A certain founder should be doing some hard time for ludicrous claims over the past 8 years. I don't think "hard time" is appropriate for white collar crimes. Money is how you speak to these people. Martha Stewart is still worth hundreds of millions of dollars.

The issue is the fines aren't a big deterrence as they're not that big. A lot of fines are less than the money the company made or saved with the illicit activity so it just becomes a line item cost more than an actual penalty.

>The issue is the fines aren't a big deterrence as they're not that big.

So make them big?

What would you and/or society gain if Musk goes to jail for 10 years? Another mouth to feed in prison, while he continues to accrue wealth in off-shore accounts.

Post reply on HN