Hacker News Board Hacker News, browsed like a classic message board
Live data from Hacker News

U.S. Rules Apple Illegally Interrogated Staff and Confiscated Union Flyers

forbes.com

Post reply on HN
Print view View original

281–290 of 327 posts

Re: U.S. Rules Apple Illegally Interrogated Staff and Confiscated Union Flyers

#281

Post by 93po »

datavirtue wrote: post #159
whamlastxmas wrote: post #128

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Police are what shows up when labor strikes. They’re part of the government, not a part of the collective “labor” that is the rest of the working world. As an example, police are part of an association but not a union. They aren’t legally allowed to strike anywhere in the US. They serve the interests of capitalism, which is the other side of the coin of workers’ rights

If they aren't allowed to strike why do people keep signing contracts with them?

there's lots of other benefits (for cops) for joining, also the general vibe with police work in the US is that if you're not on board, you're going to get harassed and threatened (and rarely assaulted/murdered) until you leave (see: thin blue line)

Re: U.S. Rules Apple Illegally Interrogated Staff and Confiscated Union Flyers

#282

Post by ExoticPearTree »

int_19h wrote: post #276
ExoticPearTree wrote: post #226

Earlier quoted context omitted.

No one is exploiting anyone. As a free individual you agree or not to be paid a certain amount of money for a unit of work - an hour in the majority of cases. The only reason unions exist is so they can extort business owners into paying more than the market is willing to pay for that unit of work. And the fact that as a business owner you can't easily fire a unionized employee is the worst thing possible. You can do…

What do you mean by "extort", exactly? Refusing to perform work for a pay that is too low is pretty much the essence of free market. Why are you okay when individuals do it separately, but suddenly not okay when they band together?

They band together and then they be like: we want 50% wage increase or we all quit and you lose a lot of money in the process. This is what I mean by extort.

Re: U.S. Rules Apple Illegally Interrogated Staff and Confiscated Union Flyers

#283

Post by ChrisMarshallNY »

93po wrote: post #280
ChrisMarshallNY wrote: post #251

Earlier quoted context omitted.

The worst I heard, was one of our sales reps (a woman) came in, with a "weekender" purse (big purse). She was stopped at the door, and wasn't allowed to enter the main hall, for about five minutes, until someone was called over, with one of those huge, hydraulic skateboards they use for moving big furniture. They put her purse onto the center of the cart, and escorted her to the booth. Then, they got upset she only t…

I think the problem is that the fast majority of workers in the US would probably have better work conditions, job security, or compensation if they were in a good union. So on one hand we have an extremely niche union that sucks, but also however many hundreds of millions of Americans as the other example of why unions are needed.

The problem with pulling this crap at convention centers, is that the people that they are pissing off, are the exact people that they want on the side of the union.

Re: U.S. Rules Apple Illegally Interrogated Staff and Confiscated Union Flyers

#284

Post by Suppafly »

bithead wrote: post #267
spamizbad wrote: post #200

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Nobody wants to admit it, but businesses are deeply ideological. Not in the typical sense, but they have lots of strongly held irrational beliefs that are contradictory. They are not rational actors.

Management is deeply ideological more so than people working. Was in an IT union for over 10 years. I can't speak to how great the union was for worker issues - I was told to my face I "had a religious problem" by a manger and the union wasn't able to do much. Management also repeated "don't document" and again the union really couldn't do much. After repeatedly told not to document work I got a pocket recorder so I…

Unions don't work if the people you vote to represent you in the union aren't willing to do the job they've lobbied for. Too many people see their union responsibilities as optional and just want the position for the small additional pay or for the prestige of the role.

Re: U.S. Rules Apple Illegally Interrogated Staff and Confiscated Union Flyers

#286

Post by geertj »

jensgk wrote: post #106
geertj wrote: post #101

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Those very generous working conditions, and the mind set that it comes from and creates, I am convinced, is also why Denmark does not have an Apple, Tesla, Google, Nvidia, or SpaceX, and why the AI revolution is heavily based on the US. I’m not dinging you for it. I am US based ex EU (NL) myself, and have lived under both systems enough time to have experienced the difference. Countries and individuals can make choic…

Well, for the size of our country, I think we are doing well, we have Novo Nordisk, Maersk, Carlsberg, Lego and maybe others. We are above the US when it comes to Nobel prizes per capita, higher than the US when it comes to happyness.

Again I am not saying one system is better than the other. The companies you bring up are excellent global companies that are well run. But they have not caused the radical change like the ones that I mentioned.

Re: U.S. Rules Apple Illegally Interrogated Staff and Confiscated Union Flyers

#287

Post by pbmonster »

lupusreal wrote: post #208
pbmonster wrote: post #118

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Dues, I imagine. If you don't strike very often, the war chest keeps filling... That war chest, in combination with it being unthinkable that a big union goes bankrupt, and the fact that they are building real estate, pretty much means they can borrow more money dirt cheap.

I guess it just seems strange to me for a union to be so rich, yet their members can't afford to live in regular housing. I grew up in a factory town in America with a unionized workforce and despite the things people say about American unions, the workers there all did very well. At least until the plant was sold to private equity about 10 years ago... I hear bad things now... but for several generations the union s…

The union housing co-ops are just another perk the union provides some of its members. They don't have nearly enough co-ops for all members. They are extremely popular - rent significantly below market rate, and no land lord as the co-op is administrated by the residents themselves.

Otherwise, those apartments are completely normal and indistinguishable from any other development in a central urban neighbourhood.

And yes, union jobs pay decent salary in Europe. Probably one of the easiest/safest ways to a middle class life, especially without going to college.

Re: U.S. Rules Apple Illegally Interrogated Staff and Confiscated Union Flyers

#288

Post by [deleted] »

trollbridge wrote: post #198
theshackleford wrote: post #184

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> I can't imagine it makes starting a new small business any easier when you're required to pay employees $20/hr. Oh no! Anyway…

A new business with 1 employee isn’t going to be union. Federal and (in many) state minimum wage laws don’t even apply. Labour regulation kicks in as you get more and more employees. Most activists are demanding higher wages from bigger employers.

[deleted]

Re: U.S. Rules Apple Illegally Interrogated Staff and Confiscated Union Flyers

#289

Post by jensgk »

polski-g wrote: post #236
jensgk wrote: post #86

Earlier quoted context omitted.

"If something is positive for both sides then I think the market will eventually adopt it on its own." In Denmark we (by law) all have 5 weeks of holiday per year (besides public holidays), paid sick leave, 37 hour work week, paid maternity care (m/f), reasonable notice of termination, reasonable rules for work environment, etc. All because of our unions. How is it in the US?

I have 5 weeks vacation, paid holidays, 40 hour work week, unpaid parental leave. I also make 3-4x what you make.

Good for you, one of the chosen few in your country. But then again you have to endure living in the US :-) I have 6 weeks paid vacation (besides the public holidays), 5 extra family care days, unlimited (paid) child sick leave, paid own sick leave, work from home (2-3 days a week), great free public health care, free uni education for my children (and they get paid to go). I can't be fired without 6 months notice. And a 37 hour work week, and a clean conscience knowing that all workers have comparable work life. I have nothing to complain about.

Re: U.S. Rules Apple Illegally Interrogated Staff and Confiscated Union Flyers

#290

Post by flandish »

arnavpraneet wrote: post #275
flandish wrote: post #13

Earlier quoted context omitted.

It’s because HN folks seem to consider themselves above working-class or soon to be above. They’re just temporarily stuck before they find their big ceo level breaks. They often demonstrate ideals that go counter to their own interests while simping for daddy ceo’s boot and money.

> They often demonstrate ideals that go counter to their own interests This for real. The cognitive dissonance is giving me more cognitive dissonance. I highly doubt that even though this may be a VC owned and operated site, somehow everyone on the site is a vc or something similar?

[flagged]
Post reply on HN