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FTX Has Billions More Than Needed to Pay Bankruptcy Victims

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Re: FTX Has Billions More Than Needed to Pay Bankruptcy Victims

#31

Post by throw_fincrim »

moralestapia wrote: post #11
underseacables wrote: post #7

Earlier quoted context omitted.

If someone robs your house and steals your things, The police arrest the burglar and get your stuff back, does that mean the burglar should go free or get a reduced sentence? NO. THE ANSWER IS NO.

That's a different crime, so your reasoning does not apply. It my understanding (I could be wrong) that on financial crimes it does make a difference if you make the victims whole or not. No idea if it also applies somehow after the ruling, hence why I asked on this forum for intelligent discourse. Sorry if that bothers you, though.

Using a throwaway for obvious reasons...

As someone who has been convicted of a financial crime (theft of funds from an association account due in part to a gambling addiction).

The key word in your statement is "YOU". My sentence/deal involved restitution from my own funds. If I'd taken some of the money I took and put it into crypto, that would be -used- to make my victims whole, but it wouldn't be considered me making recompense, because the money I put into crypto would have been ill-gotten, and as such any gains were not mine to give.

That very much made a difference to the discussions between my attorney and the prosecutor.

Re: FTX Has Billions More Than Needed to Pay Bankruptcy Victims

#32

Post by s1artibartfast »

FireBeyond wrote: post #29
erikig wrote: post #15

(Sentencing Judge Lewis) Kaplan also rejected Bankman-Fried’s claim that he deserves a lighter sentence because many of his victims may be made whole on their lost investments. "If a thief steals money, takes it to Las Vegas, and earns a handsome profit by gambling, he is still a thief, even if the funds are repaid." [1] [1] https://www.thedailybeast.com/ftx-crypto-fraudster-sam-bankm... SBF's crime wasn't losing mon…

And even more, it was luck and 'fortune' that this is the case now. It's nothing of SBF's doing. They're only able to be made whole because of the market. Crypto could easily have crashed. And then...?

That's not quite true. Many of the investments did quite good and outperformed alternatives. Investment in anthropic AI would be a good example.

Re: FTX Has Billions More Than Needed to Pay Bankruptcy Victims

#33

Post by phone8675309 »

moralestapia wrote: post #27
jamil7 wrote: post #14

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I think the original poster was aware that it’s a different crime and was attempting to simplify the concept so you were able to grasp it a little easier.

I appreciate the generosity, but I feel it needs to be simplified even more so you and GP are able to grasp it as well. Breaking and entering is a crime on its own, while most financial crimes are non-violent by nature; a whole different set of rules apply. Burglary is also different from fraud. Read about it, I can recommend a dictionary.

That's why B&E is charged differently depending on if there were occupants in the house or not.

If not, the person doing the B&E gets a lighter sentence, but they still get punished.

Re: FTX Has Billions More Than Needed to Pay Bankruptcy Victims

#35

Post by lumost »

erikig wrote: post #15

(Sentencing Judge Lewis) Kaplan also rejected Bankman-Fried’s claim that he deserves a lighter sentence because many of his victims may be made whole on their lost investments. "If a thief steals money, takes it to Las Vegas, and earns a handsome profit by gambling, he is still a thief, even if the funds are repaid." [1] [1] https://www.thedailybeast.com/ftx-crypto-fraudster-sam-bankm... SBF's crime wasn't losing mon…

It's necessary to penalize this behavior, if Fidelity or other fiduciary engaged in similar behavior - the losses could be catastrophic.

Re: FTX Has Billions More Than Needed to Pay Bankruptcy Victims

#36

Post by moralestapia »

throw_fincrim wrote: post #31
moralestapia wrote: post #11

Earlier quoted context omitted.

That's a different crime, so your reasoning does not apply. It my understanding (I could be wrong) that on financial crimes it does make a difference if you make the victims whole or not. No idea if it also applies somehow after the ruling, hence why I asked on this forum for intelligent discourse. Sorry if that bothers you, though.

Using a throwaway for obvious reasons... As someone who has been convicted of a financial crime (theft of funds from an association account due in part to a gambling addiction). The key word in your statement is "YOU". My sentence/deal involved restitution from my own funds. If I'd taken some of the money I took and put it into crypto, that would be -used- to make my victims whole, but it wouldn't be considered me ma…

Whoa, thanks a lot for coming here, I do appreciate your input on this.

Re: FTX Has Billions More Than Needed to Pay Bankruptcy Victims

#37

Post by smileysteve »

erikig wrote: post #15

(Sentencing Judge Lewis) Kaplan also rejected Bankman-Fried’s claim that he deserves a lighter sentence because many of his victims may be made whole on their lost investments. "If a thief steals money, takes it to Las Vegas, and earns a handsome profit by gambling, he is still a thief, even if the funds are repaid." [1] [1] https://www.thedailybeast.com/ftx-crypto-fraudster-sam-bankm... SBF's crime wasn't losing mon…

I'm not sure that I agree with this, because that would make most banks thieves.

The operating model of a bank is to take depositors money and loan it out at a higher interest rate; Then there are investment banks that "hedge risk" and seek higher return ratios - ie what happened to Bear Stearns in 2008 (a reminder that nobody went to jail for 2008).

Re: FTX Has Billions More Than Needed to Pay Bankruptcy Victims

#38

Post by echoangle »

smileysteve wrote: post #37
erikig wrote: post #15

(Sentencing Judge Lewis) Kaplan also rejected Bankman-Fried’s claim that he deserves a lighter sentence because many of his victims may be made whole on their lost investments. "If a thief steals money, takes it to Las Vegas, and earns a handsome profit by gambling, he is still a thief, even if the funds are repaid." [1] [1] https://www.thedailybeast.com/ftx-crypto-fraudster-sam-bankm... SBF's crime wasn't losing mon…

I'm not sure that I agree with this, because that would make most banks thieves. The operating model of a bank is to take depositors money and loan it out at a higher interest rate; Then there are investment banks that "hedge risk" and seek higher return ratios - ie what happened to Bear Stearns in 2008 (a reminder that nobody went to jail for 2008).

But surely the bank gets permission beforehand?

Re: FTX Has Billions More Than Needed to Pay Bankruptcy Victims

#40

Post by echoangle »

s1artibartfast wrote: post #32
FireBeyond wrote: post #29

Earlier quoted context omitted.

And even more, it was luck and 'fortune' that this is the case now. It's nothing of SBF's doing. They're only able to be made whole because of the market. Crypto could easily have crashed. And then...?

That's not quite true. Many of the investments did quite good and outperformed alternatives. Investment in anthropic AI would be a good example.

How does that in any way contradict the comment you’re responding to? They’re saying it was luck, saying it was successful does not mean it wasn’t just luck…
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