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FTX Has Billions More Than Needed to Pay Bankruptcy Victims

bloomberg.com

21–30 of 57 posts

Re: FTX Has Billions More Than Needed to Pay Bankruptcy Victims

#21
post #8

Earlier quoted context omitted.

It’s mostly because crypto is close to all time highs again.

This is due to non crypto holdings. They never recovered crypto from ftx

Well I meant crypto related investments too. But Anthropic might be a big piece of it, so I guess I stand “corrected”

Re: FTX Has Billions More Than Needed to Pay Bankruptcy Victims

#22

If at the end of the story, everybody affected is made whole, could it be argued that his sentence should be reduced?

Depends on why they're made whole. If it turns out that he didn't steal so much as it seemed at trial, that could matter. But as the article details, it seems to be more about two exogenous things:

* Some FTX investments, in particular Anthropic, have done very well over the past 2 years.

* Due to the mechanics of bankruptcy law, FTX's cryptocurrency liabilities were effectively converted to dollar liabilities when they filed, meaning that all crypto price increases since then are free money for the asset recovery. (You could reasonably frame this as bankruptcy victims not really being made whole, since their claims are substantially less than what FTX would owe them if it were still running, although there's good reasons it works this way.)

Re: FTX Has Billions More Than Needed to Pay Bankruptcy Victims

#23

Earlier quoted context omitted.

If someone robs your house and steals your things, The police arrest the burglar and get your stuff back, does that mean the burglar should go free or get a reduced sentence? NO. THE ANSWER IS NO.

That's a different crime, so your reasoning does not apply. It my understanding (I could be wrong) that on financial crimes it does make a difference if you make the victims whole or not. No idea if it also applies somehow after the ruling, hence why I asked on this forum for intelligent discourse. Sorry if that bothers you, though.

What's the difference between stealing $100 in cash versus stealing $100 from someone's digital account?

Re: FTX Has Billions More Than Needed to Pay Bankruptcy Victims

#24
post #8

Earlier quoted context omitted.

It’s mostly because crypto is close to all time highs again.

This is due to non crypto holdings. They never recovered crypto from ftx

Yes, but if you had for example 1 ETH in FTX when it went down, you're not getting 1 ETH back now, you're only getting the dollar value of that ETH in November 22, which was much lower than current prices (> 50%).

Re: FTX Has Billions More Than Needed to Pay Bankruptcy Victims

#25
post #24

Earlier quoted context omitted.

This is due to non crypto holdings. They never recovered crypto from ftx

Yes, but if you had for example 1 ETH in FTX when it went down, you're not getting 1 ETH back now, you're only getting the dollar value of that ETH in November 22, which was much lower than current prices (> 50%).

How is this related to my point? Ability to cash out account holders is not related to crypto being up

Re: FTX Has Billions More Than Needed to Pay Bankruptcy Victims

#27
post #14

Earlier quoted context omitted.

That's a different crime, so your reasoning does not apply. It my understanding (I could be wrong) that on financial crimes it does make a difference if you make the victims whole or not. No idea if it also applies somehow after the ruling, hence why I asked on this forum for intelligent discourse. Sorry if that bothers you, though.

I think the original poster was aware that it’s a different crime and was attempting to simplify the concept so you were able to grasp it a little easier.

I appreciate the generosity, but I feel it needs to be simplified even more so you and GP are able to grasp it as well.

Breaking and entering is a crime on its own, while most financial crimes are non-violent by nature; a whole different set of rules apply.

Burglary is also different from fraud. Read about it, I can recommend a dictionary.

Re: FTX Has Billions More Than Needed to Pay Bankruptcy Victims

#28

Earlier quoted context omitted.

That's a different crime, so your reasoning does not apply. It my understanding (I could be wrong) that on financial crimes it does make a difference if you make the victims whole or not. No idea if it also applies somehow after the ruling, hence why I asked on this forum for intelligent discourse. Sorry if that bothers you, though.

They're not really being made whole. > Depending on the type of claim they hold in the case, some creditors could recover as much as 142% of what they are owed. The vast majority of customers, however, will likely get 118% of what they had on the FTX platform the day the company entered Chapter 11 bankruptcy. If you had 2 bitcoins worth say 16k each in FTX; FTX is able to give you back 32k which is the value of your…

Sure, I agree they are not made whole, but magnitude of financial damage is absolutely a factor in sentencing.

Re: FTX Has Billions More Than Needed to Pay Bankruptcy Victims

#29
post #15

(Sentencing Judge Lewis) Kaplan also rejected Bankman-Fried’s claim that he deserves a lighter sentence because many of his victims may be made whole on their lost investments. "If a thief steals money, takes it to Las Vegas, and earns a handsome profit by gambling, he is still a thief, even if the funds are repaid." [1] [1] https://www.thedailybeast.com/ftx-crypto-fraudster-sam-bankm... SBF's crime wasn't losing mon…

And even more, it was luck and 'fortune' that this is the case now. It's nothing of SBF's doing. They're only able to be made whole because of the market.

Crypto could easily have crashed. And then...?

Re: FTX Has Billions More Than Needed to Pay Bankruptcy Victims

#30

If at the end of the story, everybody affected is made whole, could it be argued that his sentence should be reduced?

Why? It's not due to his action that they're able to be made whole. That's the market. SBF got lucky with that. If crypto crashed, then...
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