Earlier quoted context omitted.
It's because the police are always on the side of capital
Which of course, isn't true. The Red Guard was a police force in a very real sense as was the NKVD.
Police are always on the side of the state.
U.S. Rules Apple Illegally Interrogated Staff and Confiscated Union Flyers
241–250 of 327 posts
Re: U.S. Rules Apple Illegally Interrogated Staff and Confiscated Union Flyers
#242In Japan, there's a really symbiotic relationship between unions and corporations. Unions are very powerful, but they also take stakes in the corporations. I'm pretty sure that union reps often sit on corporate boards. Japan has a long culture of employee relations, but they also work their asses off. I don't think Japanese unions would cover slackers, which is a popular view of US unions.
It’s a popular view of anti union propaganda. No one wants to work with lazy people and unions don’t especially want them either
I'd rather work with a million "lazy slackers" than kiss the ass of some soulless corporate stooge who'd kill his own family if it made him 0.01% more profit YoY.
Re: U.S. Rules Apple Illegally Interrogated Staff and Confiscated Union Flyers
#243Earlier quoted context omitted.
The purpose of unions is to extract as much as possible from the employer on the behalf of its members, or at least to extract more than the employer would otherwise have given. You do not contradict anything I have written nor provide any examples of how unions might be a positive for employers... Again, if an happier, more productive employee benefits the company then the market will sort it out by itself (For inst…
> The purpose of unions is to extract as much as possible from the employer on the behalf of its members [...] This is such a weird take. Why would employees do that? Employees benefit when the company benefits. If the company increases profits by 10%, that's 10% more that could potentially go to employee benefits, salaries, etc. I want my employer to make as much profit as possible, because that guarantees my long-t…
I don't understand your interpretation of what I wrote... I did not write nor imply that unions are there to squeeze companies until they fold.
Obviously employees want the company to do well, at the same time unions are there to extract as much as they can on behalf of their members. Both are true and not mutually exclusive.
In your example, if profits go up 10% unions might push of big salary increases, indeed.
Re: U.S. Rules Apple Illegally Interrogated Staff and Confiscated Union Flyers
#244Earlier quoted context omitted.
Nobody wants to admit it, but businesses are deeply ideological. Not in the typical sense, but they have lots of strongly held irrational beliefs that are contradictory. They are not rational actors.
Who doesn’t want to admit that? Businesses are groups of people. Is there anyone in the world who says large groups are perfectly rational? A well-managed business tries to focus on profitability as opposed to, say, picking up horseback riding as a hobby. But the way profits are pursued is absolutely irrational and chaotic. Does anyone believe otherwise?
You could charitably assume that media companies don’t want to admit or publicize this ideological bias.
Media companies have an oversized impact on what the people of the country think and discuss
Re: U.S. Rules Apple Illegally Interrogated Staff and Confiscated Union Flyers
#245Earlier quoted context omitted.
Why would it matter if they can switch jobs or not when all jobs would exploit workers the same way in your non union ideal.
No one is exploiting anyone. As a free individual you agree or not to be paid a certain amount of money for a unit of work - an hour in the majority of cases. The only reason unions exist is so they can extort business owners into paying more than the market is willing to pay for that unit of work. And the fact that as a business owner you can't easily fire a unionized employee is the worst thing possible. You can do…
Ah yes, American capitalism well known for not exploiting anyone.
Re: U.S. Rules Apple Illegally Interrogated Staff and Confiscated Union Flyers
#246I wonder why US companies keep pulling stunts like this despite the data showing little negative impact of unionization to overall productivity nor company survival. It looks to be a purely dogmatic ego trip where somehow blind loyalty is demanded even when it's not actually necessary.
At a meta level, if your government isn't particularly pro-union (and one side is rabidly anti-union with the potential for them to be in charge for the next four years), and you are to some extent hostage to governmental fortune (cf the current lawsuits against Apple, the reliance on outsourcing to China, etc.) there's probably a certain amount of political sense in being seen to be anti-union Just In Case.
The big automakers have big unions. That doesn't stop Trump from supporting them.
https://trumpwhitehouse.archives.gov/briefings-statements/re...
Re: U.S. Rules Apple Illegally Interrogated Staff and Confiscated Union Flyers
#247I wonder why US companies keep pulling stunts like this despite the data showing little negative impact of unionization to overall productivity nor company survival. It looks to be a purely dogmatic ego trip where somehow blind loyalty is demanded even when it's not actually necessary.
Nobody wants to admit it, but businesses are deeply ideological. Not in the typical sense, but they have lots of strongly held irrational beliefs that are contradictory. They are not rational actors.
I’m not even sure that it is irrational exactly. The owners of a company want to believe and behave as if they own the company. Its their toy to do with as they please.
Unionization changes the fundamental facts of ownership. The owner no longer do as they please, they must consult the representatives of their labor force.
That is a fundamental shift in how the business operates and the rights that the owners enjoy
Re: U.S. Rules Apple Illegally Interrogated Staff and Confiscated Union Flyers
#248I’m in the HN minority that actually likes Apple’s products and business model. I like the consistency the closed ecosystem brings, I like the product design, I like the vertical integration. But this union stuff pisses me off to no end. Apple has high margins and is generally ahead of competitors in things like sustainability and supplier responsibility (yes yes not perfect, I just said ahead). It would be 100% in l…
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Re: U.S. Rules Apple Illegally Interrogated Staff and Confiscated Union Flyers
#249Earlier quoted context omitted.
There is a difference though, it's which side they're on
When it comes to employee vs employer, they are employed just like everyone else and can have disputes with their employer just like everyone else. They are on their own side. If police want to end single person patrols for safety concerns, or want a minimum number of hours rest between shifts, that's what their union would be for. It doesn't look any different when it's police vs. teachers in that case.
The unspoken thing about cops is that, yes, they surely care about vacation time, working hours, healthcare. And, yes, they are probably just as much victims of liberal economic austerity and such as the broader workforce. And, yes, its even not that much of stretch to call their labor "productive" (in the Marxist sense) considering how much money they extract from the population they are "serving" (only speaking for the U.S. here).
But regardless, even if they are struggling to pay rent or save for their child's college, they are singularly compensated by the one thing almost as valuable as money in our world: bare authority.
But its a bitter reward! Spiritually unhealthy. Forever opposed to everyone around them, specifically trained to think as such. Which is why, imo, we see huge numbers of them suffering from PTSD, committing suicide, engaging in domestic violence...
Re: U.S. Rules Apple Illegally Interrogated Staff and Confiscated Union Flyers
#250Earlier quoted context omitted.
Nobody wants to admit it, but businesses are deeply ideological. Not in the typical sense, but they have lots of strongly held irrational beliefs that are contradictory. They are not rational actors.
I’m not even sure that it is irrational exactly. The owners of a company want to believe and behave as if they own the company. Its their toy to do with as they please. Unionization changes the fundamental facts of ownership. The owner no longer do as they please, they must consult the representatives of their labor force. That is a fundamental shift in how the business operates and the rights that the owners enjoy
The owners of Apple are its millions of shareholders. The people who made the decision to break the law are merely its operators.