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U.S. Rules Apple Illegally Interrogated Staff and Confiscated Union Flyers

forbes.com

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Re: U.S. Rules Apple Illegally Interrogated Staff and Confiscated Union Flyers

#121

Post by couchand »

nickff wrote: post #6
boomboomsubban wrote: post #2

The key section of this story is >The board cannot impose fines or direct punishments against Apple for its violations. Which makes me wonder why they spent two years working on this investigation.

They have a lot more power than you might think from that quote. https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/National_Labor_Relations_Board... They can now try Apple in an administrative court, with an 'administrative judge' selected by the agency, then get a (normal) Article 3 court to rubber-stamp their 'order'.

Not a lawyer here. Why does an Article III judge need to get involved, and not in other administrative matters, like say, in an administrative immigration case?

edit: further investigation has indicated that it's immigration law which deviates from usual practice of administrative law, which would potentially expect an automatic stay in a context like this.

Re: U.S. Rules Apple Illegally Interrogated Staff and Confiscated Union Flyers

#122

Post by Frost1x »

ChrisMarshallNY wrote: post #115

In Japan, there's a really symbiotic relationship between unions and corporations. Unions are very powerful, but they also take stakes in the corporations. I'm pretty sure that union reps often sit on corporate boards. Japan has a long culture of employee relations, but they also work their asses off. I don't think Japanese unions would cover slackers, which is a popular view of US unions.

Japanese work culture is another beast. I don’t think US unions are so much about covering ‘slackers’ but I would say enforcing healthy work—life balance is a component.

Re: U.S. Rules Apple Illegally Interrogated Staff and Confiscated Union Flyers

#123

Post by alkonaut »

DrewRWx wrote: post #97
hackernewds wrote: post #94

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Is that actually true, you do see unionized pilots and police unions functioning pretty unproductively and in bad faith

Police aren't labor and therefore are not a labor union.

In what sense aren't police labor? "Labor" literally just means "work"? It's not like the unions of managers, pilots, lawyers, NHL players or software developers aren't "labor unions"? Policemen are employed so their organization as employees is a labor union (or just "union" for short)?

Re: U.S. Rules Apple Illegally Interrogated Staff and Confiscated Union Flyers

#124

Post by AlexandrB »

chii wrote: post #90
gklitz wrote: post #65

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Great question. Ledt assume that you’re discussing a topic like working hours. Your company says you have to work. 14h each day, and you argue that if you have to do that, you’ll be sleep deprived, make mistakes and be so low productivity that it wouldn’t benefit the company, especially since they would have to pay you more with a constant hourly wage than if you worked fewer hours and was more productive. The compan…

> and not everything in this world boils down to pure profit driven motives. that's not true. In fact, the polar opposite is true - every decision is in service to profit and the bottom line. It is only laws that prevent slavery. It is only laws that prevent over-work or exploitation. I would say that it is better to have regulation over unions. Unions may or may not act in the interest of the employee - it's a hit o…

The problem with government (or too-large unions) is that different jobs have different employment concerns. It's hard to legislate in a way that covers all cases from seasonal farm work to IT office jobs to airline pilots. A union gives you more fine-grained representation to address the problems specific to your profession and workplace.

Re: U.S. Rules Apple Illegally Interrogated Staff and Confiscated Union Flyers

#125

Post by [deleted] »

nolok wrote: post #113
pashsoft wrote: post #103

It seems like most of the "union problems" in the US arise from workers clashing with overly-greedy, abusive employers. The employer generally has more power in this relationship, and uses that power to squeeze every last bit of value out of their workforce. The workforce has few ways to push back against this, with unions being one of the options. Maybe if other options were on the table, there would be fewer union…

> Maybe if other options were on the table, there would be fewer union problems? As a worker, would you join a union for protection (and pay for it) if your government provided robust legal defences for you? Yes. The solution you provide might seem to on the surface, but it doesn't in reality. Let me give you an existing exemple, and one that people associate with strong workers right and yet the relation between wor…

[deleted]

Re: U.S. Rules Apple Illegally Interrogated Staff and Confiscated Union Flyers

#126

Post by SamWhited »

hackernewds wrote: post #94
Stranger43 wrote: post #22

I wonder why US companies keep pulling stunts like this despite the data showing little negative impact of unionization to overall productivity nor company survival. It looks to be a purely dogmatic ego trip where somehow blind loyalty is demanded even when it's not actually necessary.

Is that actually true, you do see unionized pilots and police unions functioning pretty unproductively and in bad faith

There's nothing magical about a union, at the end of the day it's people working towards a common goal and it's only as good as the people in it who make it happen. If it's you and a few of your coworkers who are learning to work together and strategize towards common goals while you prepare for marching on the boss to try and make change, it will be a good organization. If it's a bunch of greedy cops who joined the police force because they have a power complex, it's going to be the same when they all get together too.

Re: U.S. Rules Apple Illegally Interrogated Staff and Confiscated Union Flyers

#127

Post by SamWhited »

alkonaut wrote: post #123
DrewRWx wrote: post #97

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Police aren't labor and therefore are not a labor union.

In what sense aren't police labor? "Labor" literally just means "work"? It's not like the unions of managers, pilots, lawyers, NHL players or software developers aren't "labor unions"? Policemen are employed so their organization as employees is a labor union (or just "union" for short)?

"Labor" isn't being used in the dictionary definition of "doing work", here, it's being used in the sense of "the labor movement".

Re: U.S. Rules Apple Illegally Interrogated Staff and Confiscated Union Flyers

#128

Post by whamlastxmas »

alkonaut wrote: post #123
DrewRWx wrote: post #97

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Police aren't labor and therefore are not a labor union.

In what sense aren't police labor? "Labor" literally just means "work"? It's not like the unions of managers, pilots, lawyers, NHL players or software developers aren't "labor unions"? Policemen are employed so their organization as employees is a labor union (or just "union" for short)?

Police are what shows up when labor strikes. They’re part of the government, not a part of the collective “labor” that is the rest of the working world. As an example, police are part of an association but not a union. They aren’t legally allowed to strike anywhere in the US. They serve the interests of capitalism, which is the other side of the coin of workers’ rights

Re: U.S. Rules Apple Illegally Interrogated Staff and Confiscated Union Flyers

#129

Post by ChrisMarshallNY »

Frost1x wrote: post #122
ChrisMarshallNY wrote: post #115

In Japan, there's a really symbiotic relationship between unions and corporations. Unions are very powerful, but they also take stakes in the corporations. I'm pretty sure that union reps often sit on corporate boards. Japan has a long culture of employee relations, but they also work their asses off. I don't think Japanese unions would cover slackers, which is a popular view of US unions.

Japanese work culture is another beast. I don’t think US unions are so much about covering ‘slackers’ but I would say enforcing healthy work—life balance is a component.

Like I said...popular view. However, I have many friends that are quite pro-union, and the reality seems different.

Re: U.S. Rules Apple Illegally Interrogated Staff and Confiscated Union Flyers

#130

Post by alkonaut »

SamWhited wrote: post #127
alkonaut wrote: post #123

Earlier quoted context omitted.

In what sense aren't police labor? "Labor" literally just means "work"? It's not like the unions of managers, pilots, lawyers, NHL players or software developers aren't "labor unions"? Policemen are employed so their organization as employees is a labor union (or just "union" for short)?

"Labor" isn't being used in the dictionary definition of "doing work", here, it's being used in the sense of "the labor movement".

The movement that gave rise to the term is hardly relevant for who uses it today. Labor union means "employee organization". Do the police call their union "union" but not "labor union"? That's just a language thing then (The two terms aren't separated in my language - I always assumed that in English "union" was short for "labor union")
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