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Apple introduces M4 chip

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Re: Apple introduces M4 chip

#361

They are talking about iPad Pro as the primary example of M4 devices. But iPads don't really seem to be limited by performance. Nobody I know compiles Chrome or does 3D renders on an iPad.

It’s all marketing toward people who aspire to be these creative types. Very, few people actually need it but it feels good when the iPad Air is missing a few key features that push you to the Pro.

More practically, it should help with battery life. My understanding is energy usage scales non-linearly with demand. A more powerful chip running at 10% may be more battery efficient than a less powerful chip running at 20%

Re: Apple introduces M4 chip

#362
post #84

"With these improvements to the CPU and GPU, M4 maintains Apple silicon’s industry-leading performance per watt. M4 can deliver the same performance as M2 using just half the power. And compared with the latest PC chip in a thin and light laptop, M4 can deliver the same performance using just a fourth of the power." That's an incredible improvement in just a few years. I wonder how much of that is Apple engineering a…

Apple usually massively exaggerates their tech spec comparison - is it REALLY half the power use of all times (so we'll get double the battery life) or is it half the power use in some scenarios (so we'll get like... 15% more battery life total) ?

You wouldn’t necessarily get twice the battery life. It could be less than that due to the thinner body causing more heat, a screen that utilizes more energy, etc

Re: Apple introduces M4 chip

#363

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Honestly though, that's basically every tablet you cant change the ram, you get what you get and thats it. Maybe they should call them by different names like Pro Max for the ones with 16GB in order to make it more palatable? Small psychological hack.

The Samsung tablets at least still retain the SD card slot, so you can focus more on the desired amount of RAM and not worry too much about the built-in storage size.

Doesn't iPad come with an USB-C port nowadays? You can attach an external SD card reader.

Re: Apple introduces M4 chip

#364
post #117

Earlier quoted context omitted.

And here it is in an OS that can't even max out an M1! That said, the function keys make me think "and it runs macOS" is coming, and THAT would be extremely compelling.

We've seen a slow march over the last decade towards the unification of iOS and macOS. Maybe not a "it runs macOS", but an eventual "they share all the same apps" with adaptive UIs.

Unfortunately I think "they share all the same apps" will not include a terminal with root access, which is what would really be needed to make iPad a general purpose computer for development

It's a shame, because it's definitely powerful enough, and the idea of traveling with just an iPad seems super interesting, but I imagine they will not extend those features to any devices besides macs

Re: Apple introduces M4 chip

#365
post #313

> M4 has Apple’s fastest Neural Engine ever, capable of up to 38 trillion operations per second, which is faster than the neural processing unit of any AI PC today. I always wonder what crazy meds Apple employees are on. Two RTX 4090s is quite common for hobbyist use, and that is 1321 TOPS each, making two over 69 times more than what Apple claims to be the fastest in the world. That performance is literally less tha…

That’s not a neural processing unit. It’s a GPU. They said they had the fastest NPU in a PC. Not the fastest on earth (one of the nVidia cards, probably). Not the fastest way you could run something (probably a 4090 as you said). Just the fastest NPU shipping in a PC. Probably consumer PC. It’s marketing, but it seems like a reasonable line to draw to me. It’s not like when companies draw a line like “fastest car und…

Of course a GPU from Nvidia is also a NPU. People are spending billions each month on Nvidia, because it's a great NPU.

The fact is that a GPU from Nvidia is a much faster NPU than a CPU from Apple.

It is marketing as you say, but it's misleading marketing, on purpose. They could have simply written "the fastest integrated NPU of any CPU" instead. This is something Apple often does on purpose, and people believe it.

Re: Apple introduces M4 chip

#366
post #43

The 256gb and 512gb models have 8gb of ram. The 1tb and 2tb models have 16gb. Not a fan of tying ram to storage. https://www.apple.com/ipad-pro/specs/

The economic reasoning behind this doesn't make sense to me. What do they lose by allowing slightly more freedom in configurations?

Several things:

1. Having more SKUs is expensive, for everything from planning to inventory management to making sure you have enough shelf space at Best Buy (which you have to negotiate for). Chances are good that stores like Best Buy and Costco would only want 2 SKUs anyway, so the additional configs would be a special-order item for a small number of consumers.

2. After a certain point, adding more options actually decreases your sales. This is confusing to people who think they'd be more likely to buy if they could get exactly what they wanted, but what you're not seeing is the legions of casual consumers who are thinking about maybe getting an iPad, but would get overwhelmed by the number of options. They might spend days or weeks asking friends which model to get, debating about whether to spend extra on this upgrade or that, and eventually not buying it or getting an alternative. If you simplify the lineup to the "cheap one" and the "high end one" then people abandon most of that overhead and just decide what they want to pay.

The biggest thing tech people miss is that they're not the core consumers of these devices. The majority go to casual consumers who don't care about specifying every little thing. They just want to get the one that fits their budget and move on. Tech people are secondary.

Re: Apple introduces M4 chip

#367

Key values in the press release: - Up to 1.5x the CPU speed of iPad Pro's previous M2 chip - Octane gets up to 4x the speed compared to M2 - At comparable performance, M4 consumes half the power of M2 - High-performance AI engine, that claims 60x the speed of Apple's first engine (A11 Bionic)

Apple claimed M3 was 1.35 the speed of the M2. So the M3 vs M4 comparison isn't that impressive. Certainly not bad by any means, just pointing out why it is compared to the M2 here.

While I completely agree with your point, the M chips is a series of chips. The iPad M2 is different than the MBP M2 or the MacBook Air.

It’s all just marketing to build hype.

Re: Apple introduces M4 chip

#368

As an amateur EE it is so annoying that they reuse names of already existing ARM chips. ARM Cortex-M4 or simply M4 is quite popular ARM architecture. I am using M0, M3 and M4 chips from ST on a daily basis.

As a professional EE, I know that ARM Cortex-M4 is not a chip. It's an embedded processor that is put into an SOC (which is a chip), such as the STM32-family from ST.

Re: Apple introduces M4 chip

#369
post #332

Why are we running these high end CPUs on tablets without the ability to run pro apps like Xcode? Until I can run Xcode on an iPad (not Swift Playgrounds), it's a pass for me. Hear me out: I don't want to bring both an iPad and Macbook on trips, but I need Xcode. Because of this, I have to pick the Macbook every time. I want an iPad, but the iPad doesn't want me.

"It's not you, it's me" - Xcode to the iPad

Re: Apple introduces M4 chip

#370

Does anyone know how much of this giant leap performance as Apple puts it is really useful and perceived by end users of iPad. I am thinking gaming, art applications on iPad. What other major ipad use cases are out there that need this kind of performance boost.

I imagine running LLMs and other AI models to produce a variety of art, music, video, etc.
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