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Apple introduces M4 chip

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Re: Apple introduces M4 chip

#311
post #281

Seeing an M series chip launch first in an iPad must be result of some mad supply chain and manufacturing related hangovers from COVID. If the iPad had better software and could be considered a first class productivity machine then it would be less surprising but the one thing no one says about the iPads is “I wish this chip were faster”

To be honest, I wish my iPad's chip was slower! I can't do anything other than watch videos and use drawing programs on an iPad, why does it need a big expensive power hungry and environmentally impactful CPU when one 1/10 the speed would do? If I could actually do something with an iPad there would be a different discussion, but the operating system is so incredibly gimped that the most demanding task it's really su…

> Why does it need a big expensive power hungry and environmentally impactful CPU when one 1/10 the speed would do?

Well, it's not. Every process shrink improves power efficiency. For watching videos, you're sipping power on the M4. For drawing...well if you want low latency while drawing, which generally speaking, people do, you...want the processor and display to ramp up to compensate and carry strokes as fast as possible?

Obviously if your main concern is the environment, you shouldn't upgrade and you should hold onto your existing model(s) until they die.

Re: Apple introduces M4 chip

#312
Its really saying something about how the tech sector has shifted due to the recent AI wave that Apple is announcing a chipset entirely apart from a product.

This has never happened to my knowledge in this companies history? I could be wrong though, even the G3/G4s were launched as PowerMacs.

Re: Apple introduces M4 chip

#313

> M4 has Apple’s fastest Neural Engine ever, capable of up to 38 trillion operations per second, which is faster than the neural processing unit of any AI PC today. I always wonder what crazy meds Apple employees are on. Two RTX 4090s is quite common for hobbyist use, and that is 1321 TOPS each, making two over 69 times more than what Apple claims to be the fastest in the world. That performance is literally less tha…

That’s not a neural processing unit. It’s a GPU.

They said they had the fastest NPU in a PC. Not the fastest on earth (one of the nVidia cards, probably). Not the fastest way you could run something (probably a 4090 as you said). Just the fastest NPU shipping in a PC. Probably consumer PC.

It’s marketing, but it seems like a reasonable line to draw to me. It’s not like when companies draw a line like “fastest car under $70k with under 12 cylinders but available in green from the factory”.

Re: Apple introduces M4 chip

#314
post #233
post #158

M2's Neural Engine had 15TOPS, M3's 18TOPS (+20%) vs. M4's 38TOPS (+111%). In transistor counts, M2 had 20BTr, M3 25BTr (+25%) and M4 has 28BTr (+12%). M2 used TSMC N5P (138MTr/mm2), M3 used TSMC N3 (197MTr/mm2, +43%) and M4 uses TSMC N3E (215MTr/mm2, +9%).[1][2] [1] https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/5_nm_process#%225_nm%22_proces... [2] https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/3_nm_process#%223_nm%22_proces...

An NVIDIA RTX 4090 generates 73 TFLOPS. This iPad gives you nearly half that. The memory bandwidth of 120 GBps is roughly 1/10th of the NVIDIA hardware, but who’s counting!

> The memory bandwidth of 120 GBps is roughly 1/10th of the NVIDIA hardware, but who’s counting

Memory bandwidth is literally the main bottleneck when it comes to the types of applications gpus are used for, so everyone is counting

Re: Apple introduces M4 chip

#315
post #286

Earlier quoted context omitted.

They are referring to integrated npus in current cpus like in the intel cote ultra. They explicitly mentioned in the event that the industry refers to the neural engine as a NPU

But the word they used isn't "NPU" or "neural engine" but "AI PC"??? If I build a PC with a ton of GPU power with the intention of using that compute for machine learning then that's an "AI PC"

“AI PC” is what Microsoft and the industry has deemed SoCs that have an NPU in it. It’s not a term that Apple made up. It’s what the industry is using.

Of course, Apple has had an NPU in their SoC since the first iPhone with FaceID.

Re: Apple introduces M4 chip

#316
post #286

Earlier quoted context omitted.

They are referring to integrated npus in current cpus like in the intel cote ultra. They explicitly mentioned in the event that the industry refers to the neural engine as a NPU

But the word they used isn't "NPU" or "neural engine" but "AI PC"??? If I build a PC with a ton of GPU power with the intention of using that compute for machine learning then that's an "AI PC"

[deleted]

Re: Apple introduces M4 chip

#317

I'm still rocking an iPad 6th generation. It's a video consumption device only. A faster CPU doesn't enable any new use cases. The only reason is the consumer's desire to buy more.

and I still have a an original iPad Air first gen.....still works for basic things. Unsupported by apple now, but still usable.

Re: Apple introduces M4 chip

#318
I get frustrated seeing this go into the iPad and knowing that we can't get a shell, and run our own binaries there. Not even as a VM like [UserLAnd](https://userland.tech). I could effectively travel with one device less in my backpack but instead I have to carry two M chips, two displays, batteries, and so on...

It's great to see this tech moving forward but it's frustrating to not see it translate into a more significant impact in the ways we work, travel and develop software.

Re: Apple introduces M4 chip

#319

Am I wrong, or is raytracing on an iPad an _insane_ thing to announce? As far as I know, raytracing is the holy grail of computer graphics. It's something that became viable on consumer gaming desktops just a few years ago, and now we have real-time ray tracing on a tablet.

Why would it be? They announced the same for the A17 in the iPhone. Turns out it was a gimmick that caused over 11W of power draw. Raytracing is a brute force approach that cannot be optimized to the same level as rasterization. For now at least, it is unsuitable for mobile devices. Now if we could use the RT units for Blender that'd be great, but it's iPad OS...

Re: Apple introduces M4 chip

#320

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I've been using the iPad Mini for years. I'd love to see them add something to that form factor. I do see a lot of iPad Minis out there, but usually, as part of dedicated systems (like PoS, and restaurant systems). On the other hand, I have heard rumblings that Apple may release an even bigger phone, which I think might be overkill (but what do I know. I see a lot of those monster Samsung beasts, out there). Not sure…

I loved my ipad mini. It's super long in the tooth now, and I was hoping to replace it today. oh well...

I was ready to buy one today, too. Disappointing.

I miss my old iPad mini 4. I guess I could try the 11" iPad, but I think I'd prefer it to be smaller.

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