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NYU professors who defended vaping didn't disclose ties to Juul

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Re: NYU professors who defended vaping didn't disclose ties to Juul

#191

Post by ProllyInfamous »

rayiner wrote: post #32
lenerdenator wrote: post #9

It really is amazing. We were thiiiiiiis close to having a generation that wasn't addicted to nicotine for the first time in hundreds of years (like, since trade between North America and Europe really became a thing) and these guys pulled this thumb drive that tastes like cotton candy out of nowhere and every young person is just jonesing . And the regulatory/public opinion environment isn't what it was in the 80s a…

We socialized people to realize smoking is dirty, then went ahead and legalized marijuana so now kids who would never have smoked cigarettes are filling their lungs with tar: https://www.cnn.com/2023/08/14/health/marijuana-smoke-wellne... . At least cigarettes made people skinny and hot.

Personal anecdote (about blood pressure):

I have smoked less than one cigarette in my entire life, but for two decades was a daily cannaburner. In the past two months, I have almost entirely stopped combusting to consume (i.e. no flame/burning), and instead used a Volcano.

My blood pressure has dropped -20/-15 in those two months of not burning.

YMMV, n=1, "not a controlled study."

Re: NYU professors who defended vaping didn't disclose ties to Juul

#192

Post by vel0city »

bombcar wrote: post #153
rayiner wrote: post #132

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Socialization is a funny thing. I have the same reaction you're describing to dog smell, but I'm not troubled by cigarette smoke at all. (My dad was a multiple packs a day smoker when I was a kid.) I actually find it quite pleasant, even the stale tobacco smell in old motel rooms.

This is so the case - I never smoked myself but my college years were filled with others smoking; it didn't bother me at all until a few years removed when I return to visit. It's not entirely off-putting it but it is certainly noticeable.

I grew up in and around a family of smokers, always in the smoking section of a bar, etc. I don't smoke myself and have been away from it for decades.

I recently attended an event hosted at an American Legion Post and went to the bar there where smoking was allowed (and done, frequently). The scent first hit me quite negatively, but something triggered in my mind and honestly made it feel more like home. It was an odd feeling of both not really enjoying the immediate sensation while also triggering positive nostalgia memories.

Re: NYU professors who defended vaping didn't disclose ties to Juul

#193

Post by kjkjadksj »

uniqueuid wrote: post #51
jorvi wrote: post #44

Earlier quoted context omitted.

You are conflating the harms of the delivery mechanism with the harms of the substance. Nicotine gum is relatively harmless for example. Or perhaps imbibe on a Nicotini[0]? [0] https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Nicotini

You're right that these studies measure the product, not the substance. But TFA is about vaping, and I am referring to that. [edit] Seems that nicotine is not really harmless, even in gum or patches: double the risk of heart palpitations and chest pains, 1.67 the risk of nausea and vomiting, 1.5 times the risk of gastrointestinal complaints, and 1.4 times the risk of insomnia. Of course, if you measure anything this…

Are those numbers comparable to caffeine?

Re: NYU professors who defended vaping didn't disclose ties to Juul

#194

Post by vundercind »

bilekas wrote: post #54
fidotron wrote: post #39

Earlier quoted context omitted.

You say it like that it is desirable. Unfortunately people perform better when they have nicotine, so the effect for society as a whole is non negligible if a huge mass of people get a slight performance bounce. Smoking is annoying, disgusting, unhealthy etc. but we are way too quick to dismiss the possibility that nicotine itself may have been a civilization booster.

> Unfortunately people perform better when they have nicotine. This is the first time I've ever heard someone bring this argument. Ignoring the health risks involved with nicotine, the 'performance boost' is negligible. It's less than caffeine. > but we are way too quick to dismiss the possibility that nicotine itself may have been a civilization booster. There are nicotine gums and patches available, and a very good…

There was a pretty good NPR piece some time back by a reporter who was quitting smoking. The reporter went on a pretty deep dive of this popular quitting-smoking self-help company that was based on some dude’s book, the gist of which was that everything about nicotine making you feel good and perform better is bullshit and the trouble with is entirely a mindset thing, and an irrational craving for something that only makes you feel worse, in fact.

The piece entertains this and struggles with it for a while, before turning to experts on the biochemistry of nicotine.

TL;DR: “omg, lol, of course it makes you feel awesome and enhances performance on mental tasks in particular, here’s a list of the exact ways it affects your body to 100% for-sure do those things, that’s part of why it’s so incredibly difficult to quit for many people”

Re: NYU professors who defended vaping didn't disclose ties to Juul

#195

Post by rozab »

kredd wrote: post #178
jjice wrote: post #87

I'm blown away by how vaping took over. I was a senior in high school once Juul started to get popular. We'd joke about our peers that willingly took on an addiction when our generation was mostly in the clear from being addicted to cigarettes. Then some of my friends who'd joke about it started vaping. I don't even know how they started, but they did. Let me be clear - it's not nearly as annoying or destructive for…

I was just discussing the whole Zyn craze that’s going with some friends, and it’s amazing to see in real time how it’s becoming so popular. It’s something I have absolutely no desire to try, but looks like influencers, unfortunately, have a lot of pull nowadays. Big names are getting paid to do some product placements, which eventually makes the younger people to get on board with it. Kids want to try new things, bu…

I don't know if this is the same company, but this thing called Nordic Spirit is being heavily marketed in the UK. It's just snus, changed just enough to get past the 1992 ban on oral tobacco products.

About half of my YT adverts are for it right now, and I have never used nicotine products so clearly they are not targeting existing users. It makes me so uneasy because this sort of advertising has been illegal in the UK for as long as I can remember, and they have managed to skirt around the rules so easily.

Re: NYU professors who defended vaping didn't disclose ties to Juul

#196

Post by dyauspitr »

dogman144 wrote: post #171
dyauspitr wrote: post #157

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I don’t see the problem with being addicted to pure nicotine. It’s completely safe, causes next to no health issues, is not carcinogenic, actually has health benefits for acuity and long term memory. Addiction in itself is not a bad thing.

Have you had said addiction, and if so have you tried to quit it?

I do have the addiction and I have quit before but it’s really hard. That was when I smoked cigarettes and needed to quit because I was severely harming my body. I now vape with a 100% vegetable glycerin and nicotine mix that is fully unflavored so I haven’t found the need to quit again because frankly the health risks are very low.

Re: NYU professors who defended vaping didn't disclose ties to Juul

#197

Post by dyauspitr »

oyashirochama wrote: post #167
dyauspitr wrote: post #157

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I don’t see the problem with being addicted to pure nicotine. It’s completely safe, causes next to no health issues, is not carcinogenic, actually has health benefits for acuity and long term memory. Addiction in itself is not a bad thing.

Nicotine DOES cause health issues, most of them are extreme versions of caffeine, and due to the severity should be controlled a little similar to alcohol.

What are they. I’ve done a lot of research and the most I could find is a slightly increased cardiovascular risk. It has been a few years since I looked into it so maybe there is new research I’m missing. Maybe you’re referring to a nicotine overdose which is a separate discussion.

Re: NYU professors who defended vaping didn't disclose ties to Juul

#198

Post by ramblenode »

dyauspitr wrote: post #157
lenerdenator wrote: post #9

It really is amazing. We were thiiiiiiis close to having a generation that wasn't addicted to nicotine for the first time in hundreds of years (like, since trade between North America and Europe really became a thing) and these guys pulled this thumb drive that tastes like cotton candy out of nowhere and every young person is just jonesing . And the regulatory/public opinion environment isn't what it was in the 80s a…

I don’t see the problem with being addicted to pure nicotine. It’s completely safe, causes next to no health issues, is not carcinogenic, actually has health benefits for acuity and long term memory. Addiction in itself is not a bad thing.

Nicotine use without smoking raises heart rate, constricts blood vessels, raises blood pressure, and remodels the cardiovascular system and individual cells. Those cardiovascular changes are associated with stroke and dementia. It stimulates the mesolimbic dopamine system which causes downregulation of dopamine receptors, addiction, and feeling less good when you aren't ingesting nicotine.

Here is an overview: https://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pmc/articles/PMC8026694/

Re: NYU professors who defended vaping didn't disclose ties to Juul

#199

Post by pram »

xxr wrote: post #151
zeroonetwothree wrote: post #109

Earlier quoted context omitted.

It must depend on the person. I used to smoke and drink coffee and it was much easier for me to quit smoking. I just stopped one day (12 years ago) and never looked back. In contrast quitting caffeine took me several tries and I had to very carefully taper over the course of months to eventually be able to do it. I also quit alcohol and that was pretty easy too. I used to drink every day and then I stopped without mu…

Yeah, I think this is one of those things where there can be pretty wild deviation from the mean. One of my uncles quit a 30-year smoking habit about 10 years ago, and the only reason he waited so long was because he had heard for decades how hard it is to quit. However, like you he just stopped one day and that was it. (My family credits his success in nicotine cessation to having previously kicked a 20-year heroin…

I stopped smoking cold turkey in 2013 and it wasn’t very hard, but I’ve never moved beyond the feeling of wanting to smoke. It definitely does something to your brain permanently.

Re: NYU professors who defended vaping didn't disclose ties to Juul

#200

Post by rayiner »

impossiblefork wrote: post #142
slibhb wrote: post #125

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> The shoving of high-fructose corn syrup and other calorie-rich ingredients into everything sold in the US to increase consumption (again, for profits) has a much greater impact on weight management, though. It doesn't have to be some conspiracy to make people addicted to calories. People are (relatively) rich, food is cheap, and eating feels good.

If people are genuinely happy they don't start doing things to excess. Eating to excess is usually an attempt to distract oneself from something else, a 'cope'. That only happens in a society that is not rich and happy. If people are actually rich and happy you see them take up expensive sports, golf, tennis, horseback riding. They rarely get fat unless there's something personally wrong with them.

You’re projecting culturally-determined views about what “rich and happy” people do onto others. Rich people taking up sports and eating in moderation is a WASP thing. It’s much less of a thing in the south. And it’s not a thing at all in say the Indian subcontinent, where it’s unusual for adults to play sports.
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