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NYU professors who defended vaping didn't disclose ties to Juul

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Re: NYU professors who defended vaping didn't disclose ties to Juul

#171

Post by dogman144 »

dyauspitr wrote: post #157
lenerdenator wrote: post #9

It really is amazing. We were thiiiiiiis close to having a generation that wasn't addicted to nicotine for the first time in hundreds of years (like, since trade between North America and Europe really became a thing) and these guys pulled this thumb drive that tastes like cotton candy out of nowhere and every young person is just jonesing . And the regulatory/public opinion environment isn't what it was in the 80s a…

I don’t see the problem with being addicted to pure nicotine. It’s completely safe, causes next to no health issues, is not carcinogenic, actually has health benefits for acuity and long term memory. Addiction in itself is not a bad thing.

Have you had said addiction, and if so have you tried to quit it?

Re: NYU professors who defended vaping didn't disclose ties to Juul

#172

Post by alephnerd »

Nasrudith wrote: post #160
alephnerd wrote: post #97

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Hyper-individualism leading to a nihilistic worldview. Individuals absolutely should have autonomy to choose what they wish to do, but not if it has an impact on the rest of society. Fundamentally, some amount of regulation (either via social norms or via actual laws) is needed, yet we as individuals will continue to fight each other while ignoring the core fact that we are all on the same team. I strongly disagree w…

I haven't seen any evidence against "communitarianism" just being authoritarianism with happy words painted over it, pretending that there is a mandate of a community behind the dictators and oppression.

> "communitarianism" just being authoritarianism with happy words painted over it

There are various different definitions of "communitarianism" but the idealized American Town Hall model of direct democracy is a direct example of communitarianism at the local level.

Political Scientists and Philosophers (all of whom are mainstream btw) like Michael Walzer, Robert Putnam, Charles Taylor, and Michael Sandel all touch on a light form of communitarianism that directly connects with Democracy.

Re: NYU professors who defended vaping didn't disclose ties to Juul

#173

Post by notyourwork »

pavel_lishin wrote: post #46
rayiner wrote: post #32

Earlier quoted context omitted.

We socialized people to realize smoking is dirty, then went ahead and legalized marijuana so now kids who would never have smoked cigarettes are filling their lungs with tar: https://www.cnn.com/2023/08/14/health/marijuana-smoke-wellne... . At least cigarettes made people skinny and hot.

> At least cigarettes made people skinny and hot. Until you lean in for a kiss, or even a hug.

And the things it does to your skin. You can tell a smoker from across the room by looking at their face.

Re: NYU professors who defended vaping didn't disclose ties to Juul

#174

Post by dogman144 »

Workaccount2 wrote: post #138
jjice wrote: post #87

I'm blown away by how vaping took over. I was a senior in high school once Juul started to get popular. We'd joke about our peers that willingly took on an addiction when our generation was mostly in the clear from being addicted to cigarettes. Then some of my friends who'd joke about it started vaping. I don't even know how they started, but they did. Let me be clear - it's not nearly as annoying or destructive for…

I was a smoker, turned vaper, turned quitter. Smoked for 8 years, vaped for 7, quit now for 4. I purposely never picked up on juuls, because they were too good. I worked at a restaurant at the time and begged the younger kids not to pick up a juul because it was clear they were incredibly addictive with none of the restraints of cigarette (can't stealth smoke inside, tastes gross, etc).

I used to dip and quit cold turkey, and had a similar thought when this all came out. Felt deep concern that an amazingly addicting habit suddenly had all its moats removed - tastes like dirt, makes you a bit sick first few times, and then if you got through that the worst/best addition you ever had was waiting for you. Same with Zyn.

Now kids and otherwise new smokers get to skip right to the last part.

I saw my friends get into it this way and couldn’t say much else than offering to be there when they wanted to quit a few deeply addicted years later.

Re: NYU professors who defended vaping didn't disclose ties to Juul

#175

Post by astura »

redserk wrote: post #119
itsoktocry wrote: post #92

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> The shoving of high-fructose corn syrup and other calorie-rich ingredients into everything sold in the US to increase consumption (again, for profits) Do you have any evidence of this conspiracy? Perhaps it's just food producers adding an abundant, cheap sweetener to their crap because that's what the market demands? Read the ingredients and buy or don't buy. People need to have a bit of personal accountability in…

Where are you finding many options in products without HFCS or additives? Even the much-higher-end supermarkets near me don't have meaningful alternatives for a lot of products where I am, and I'm in a HCOL area.

What sort of products are you looking for?

I read the ingredients on everything (I'm a vegetarian) and I don't buy anything with corn syrup or added sugar that isn't either 1) a once-in-a-while treat or 2) something I'd add a bit of sweetener to if I were to make it myself.

I don't shop anywhere special.

Re: NYU professors who defended vaping didn't disclose ties to Juul

#176

Post by 7thaccount »

LeifCarrotson wrote: post #113
pavel_lishin wrote: post #46

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> At least cigarettes made people skinny and hot. Until you lean in for a kiss, or even a hug.

It doesn't take a kiss or hug, I have a visceral reaction to just talking to or walking by someone who stinks of cigarette smoke, it's disgusting to me. I'll still assert that all people are innately deserving of compassion and respect, but it takes effort and a choice when I smell that. As a father, an uncle, and a dog owner who has changed a lot of diapers and cleaned up a lot of poop (at ~10 years x 365 days x 1-1…

As someone with asthma who has trouble breathing around cigarette smoke I agree it's nasty.

Re: NYU professors who defended vaping didn't disclose ties to Juul

#177

Post by EasyMark »

eej71 wrote: post #41
rayiner wrote: post #32

Earlier quoted context omitted.

We socialized people to realize smoking is dirty, then went ahead and legalized marijuana so now kids who would never have smoked cigarettes are filling their lungs with tar: https://www.cnn.com/2023/08/14/health/marijuana-smoke-wellne... . At least cigarettes made people skinny and hot.

I've often wondered if our complete demonization of all smoking was a bit of a disservice to the sporadic smoke that likely helped with managing one's weight which has its own health benefits.

I highly doubt "the sporadic" smoke helped anyone with weight. More and more sugar and other junk has been dumped into our food to make it tastier than the competition and society has taught us to "just grab something" rather than taking an hour and cooking a meal. We didn't get fat because we smoked less. I'm sure a few did but all evidence points at reduced exercise and more junk stuff into our mouth holes as the culprit.

Re: NYU professors who defended vaping didn't disclose ties to Juul

#178

Post by kredd »

jjice wrote: post #87

I'm blown away by how vaping took over. I was a senior in high school once Juul started to get popular. We'd joke about our peers that willingly took on an addiction when our generation was mostly in the clear from being addicted to cigarettes. Then some of my friends who'd joke about it started vaping. I don't even know how they started, but they did. Let me be clear - it's not nearly as annoying or destructive for…

I was just discussing the whole Zyn craze that’s going with some friends, and it’s amazing to see in real time how it’s becoming so popular. It’s something I have absolutely no desire to try, but looks like influencers, unfortunately, have a lot of pull nowadays. Big names are getting paid to do some product placements, which eventually makes the younger people to get on board with it.

Kids want to try new things, but the only “new things” we’ve come up with in the recent years are reintroduction of sports gambling, vaping, nicotine gums and new flavour of social media websites that tend to be more addictive.

Re: NYU professors who defended vaping didn't disclose ties to Juul

#180

Post by happypumpkin »

fidotron wrote: post #39
lenerdenator wrote: post #9

It really is amazing. We were thiiiiiiis close to having a generation that wasn't addicted to nicotine for the first time in hundreds of years (like, since trade between North America and Europe really became a thing) and these guys pulled this thumb drive that tastes like cotton candy out of nowhere and every young person is just jonesing . And the regulatory/public opinion environment isn't what it was in the 80s a…

You say it like that it is desirable. Unfortunately people perform better when they have nicotine, so the effect for society as a whole is non negligible if a huge mass of people get a slight performance bounce. Smoking is annoying, disgusting, unhealthy etc. but we are way too quick to dismiss the possibility that nicotine itself may have been a civilization booster.

While I don't doubt that there's a slight temporary productivity boost, I doubt it outweighs:

1) Lost years of productivity as people die early from lung cancer (my smoker granddad ended his career early because of it, a challenging maritime career that as I understand it has an increasing shortage of workers).

2) Healthcare resources being directed towards diseases directly caused by smoking. Tax money and individual money that could've been productively invested elsewhere, plus the working hours of healthcare professionals (another field with a shortage).

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