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Israel shuts down local Al Jazeera offices

theguardian.com

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Re: Israel shuts down local Al Jazeera offices

#721

Post by tenlp »

guappa wrote: post #655
mrtksn wrote: post #330

Earlier quoted context omitted.

That's correct and IMHO its the right thing to do when shooting begins because when people shoot each other this is no longer a discussion and the press is part of the warfare. Remember all the Russian media and social media accounts claiming that its American hysteria that they will invade Ukraine? They denied and mocked anyone who claimed that they will invade up until the tanks rolled in. Personally, I'm critical…

It's a bit ironic how we are constantly reminded that china isn't a democracy because they have censorship, while we are free and democratic and don't have censorship (except we do). Italy is passing laws to be able to block websites within 30 minutes, without any oversight from any judge. (more details here, link in italian https://stop-piracy-shield.it/ )

In fact, a series of Western media including the BBC, Reuters, CNN, etc. all have offices in China.... and you can also easily access Western media websites through VPN and other methods which are uncensored

Re: Israel shuts down local Al Jazeera offices

#722

Post by awuji »

hardlianotion wrote: post #707
angra_mainyu wrote: post #244

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Europe has done the same with Russia. Also, I think a few other Arab countries like Egypt have blocked/banned Al Jazeera.

If you believe that RT is an organisation that is not interested in the truth, but is set up purely to disrupt and disturb, then a government can reasonably want to prevent its operation. Adding plausible noise to information causes people to have to do much more work to discern between what is true and what is not, time that many people do not have. A reluctance to ban a bad-faith organisation is good: a moral socie…

There are two things wrong with this argument. One, it implies that there isn't a better way to deal with an such a malicious organization. And two, it doesn't acknowledge how such a ban creates an obvious opening for abuse.

Holding up the classic Western ideals of Democracy and Freedom is hard because it is much deeper than simply giving people the freedom to access all information so they can form their own opinions. It also requires that these people are educated and trained to be competent critical thinkers and be able to intelligently form their own opinions. It holds its citizens and the government to high standards and will collapse if these standards aren't met. Accordingly, better education and trust in citizens is the better solution, not banning.

As for the obvious opening for abuse, it doesn't have to be said that every system will eventually be maximally exploited, and creating this opening for exploitation will eventually be exploited as well. It is just a matter of time...

Another poor but useful analogy is fast food. Banning bad media is like consuming fast food. It is quick and easy, and "satisfies" the goal within some basic parameters, but it really does more harm than good in the long term.

Re: Israel shuts down local Al Jazeera offices

#723

Post by bamboozled »

chmod775 wrote: post #526
bamboozled wrote: post #502

Earlier quoted context omitted.

This is fine but you have to realise that war isn’t just about bombs. It’s about information too. An information war. In order to make up your mind correctly you need to be feed accurate information. Al Jazeera making up causality figures in real-time isn’t how you make up your mind.

> In order to make up your mind correctly you need to be feed accurate information. Haha. And we're going to let the government decide what is "correct" and "accurate"? Letting whoever is currently in power control what information the electorate has access to is one of the single biggest threats to democracy. > Al Jazeera making up causality figures in real-time isn’t how you make up your mind. The correct response…

Haha. And we're going to let the government decide what is "correct" and "accurate"?

Ok, so how did all this unchecked exposure to propaganda workout for Russia, China, North Korea, Iran, Palestine etc? Did it lead to some kind of "free thinking" utopia?

Free speech hasn't been banned in Israel. Access to information hasn't been banned. What has been banned is a platform for foreign agents to easily negative influence their populace and to broadcast nonsense en masse to their people.

If any Al Jazeera staff who have a residency permit want to walk the streets and discuss things their passionate about to other people, it will be allowed. But it won't be allowed if it turns out their being paid to do so by a foreign government. It's no different.

Sorry to say this, but you have yet offered a sane alternative here.

We can't just have autocrats from foreign countries broadcasting nonsense, unabated to whoever wants to listen, else our society will look no different to those dystopias.

Domestic free speech within a democracy is one thing, foreign interference is another.

Re: Israel shuts down local Al Jazeera offices

#724

Post by brabel »

dagw wrote: post #692
brabel wrote: post #626

Earlier quoted context omitted.

It seems in some EU countries you can still reach RT or BY. Try one of these (none accessible to me in Sweden): * https://sputnikglobe.com * https://sputnik.by * https://rt.com/ My wife is Belarussian and was upset she couldn't read her news, that's how I know they banned many websites. They didn't ban the "opposition" websites run from outside Russia/Belarus though :).

Al three work fine for me (also in Sweden). Perhaps different ISPs are dealing with this differently.

That's scary. Perhaps they only block if you try to access the sites regularly?? I wouldn't think my ISP matters (Telia, which one you're on?) but that's possible too.

Re: Israel shuts down local Al Jazeera offices

#725

Post by AlecSchueler »

guappa wrote: post #655
mrtksn wrote: post #330

Earlier quoted context omitted.

That's correct and IMHO its the right thing to do when shooting begins because when people shoot each other this is no longer a discussion and the press is part of the warfare. Remember all the Russian media and social media accounts claiming that its American hysteria that they will invade Ukraine? They denied and mocked anyone who claimed that they will invade up until the tanks rolled in. Personally, I'm critical…

It's a bit ironic how we are constantly reminded that china isn't a democracy because they have censorship, while we are free and democratic and don't have censorship (except we do). Italy is passing laws to be able to block websites within 30 minutes, without any oversight from any judge. (more details here, link in italian https://stop-piracy-shield.it/ )

In Germany they can't publicly gather to protest Israel's actions either, not legally anyway.

https://www.aljazeera.com/features/2023/10/26/complete-censo...

Re: Israel shuts down local Al Jazeera offices

#726

Post by AlecSchueler »

kristiandupont wrote: post #677
kragen wrote: post #605

Earlier quoted context omitted.

i did and do. banning your citizens from reading the 'propaganda' of your enemy reduces them to subjects and foments further armed conflict. it's also a power invariably used to avoid accountability for petty corruption such as beria's garden full of young, beautiful women

Is the fact that you put "propaganda" in quotation marks an indication that you don't consider RT to be that, or that you don't think propaganda even exists?

I think the point is that one side's propaganda is another side's information.

Re: Israel shuts down local Al Jazeera offices

#727

Post by benja123 »

brnt wrote: post #720
benja123 wrote: post #697

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I personally don't support blocking Al Jazeera. It's not that I'm a fan of them or any news station operated under a dictatorship without free press. It's clear that Al Jazeera acts as the propaganda wing of the Qatari government, and Qatar, being one of the main sponsors of Hamas, uses it to effectively spread Hamas propaganda. However, the real question is what does blocking them achieve. Does it stop their influen…

> Does it make them harder to watch here? No. Of course it does? Most people are not going to go out of their way for it unless they have specific reasons to do so. What's on/available by default matters. (Ask any UX specialist.)

I should know better, my wife is a UX specialist! You make a good point. What I should have said is that it won’t stop people who really want to watch it.

Re: Israel shuts down local Al Jazeera offices

#728

Post by exe34 »

cjk2 wrote: post #207
exe34 wrote: post #195

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I didn't realise they had two versions, but it makes sense. Is the anti-infidel version only available in Arabic then?

Yes it is. They have low to no journalistic standards in that edition and it's heavily propagandized depending on their agenda. Their entire reputation is based on the Western version as "look we use those standards everywhere" which is definitely not true.

I believe you, but I too would like a citation that I can share with others - even a blog post with some examples would be helpful.

Re: Israel shuts down local Al Jazeera offices

#729

Post by jajko »

oefrha wrote: post #590
Synaesthesia wrote: post #422

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Not only does Israel target journalists, but it targets the families of journalists. Nobody is immune not even the bureau chief of Al Jezeera.

Damn that was a difficult read. https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Wael_Al-Dahdouh 2023-10-28: Wife, 15-year-old son, 7-year-old daughter, a grandson and seven other relatives killed in strike on refugee camp. 2023-12-15: Wounded by missile during filming, cameraman fatally wounded and bled to death with ambulances cut off. 2024-01-07: Eldest son, a journalist, killed in air strike. 2024-01-08: Two nephews killed. 2024-01…

As much as it hurts even writing it, I don't think its a rare story there these days. History will not look kindly at both sides here, they really have no higher moral ground than the other

Re: Israel shuts down local Al Jazeera offices

#730

Post by AlecSchueler »

jurmous wrote: post #691
angra_mainyu wrote: post #309

Earlier quoted context omitted.

rt.com and their twitter are blocked. How are you not aware of this? It's been a few years already. The EU ruled on this. https://paste.pics/4b60ebef97d3b7fbb6aba74637c2e818 https://paste.pics/0cb2ae98754165dad5cf086e75c4cc31

I am in the Netherlands and I am able to visit rt.com without VPN.

Netherlands here also and it's blocked for me.
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