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MIT abandons requirement of DEI statements for hiring and promotions

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Re: MIT abandons requirement of DEI statements for hiring and promotions

#581

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Context for others who missed this particular storm in a teacup: https://freespeechunion.org/harvard-professor-needed-armed-p... On the question of non-lethal uses of force, the study found “sometimes quite large” racial differences in police use of force, even after accounting for “a large set of controls designed to account for important contextual and behavioural factors at the time of the police-civilian interact…

Any media coverage that isn’t from a niche right wing news site yelling about the woke kids?

So it's not true?

Re: MIT abandons requirement of DEI statements for hiring and promotions

#582

It's quite telling that the MIT president was too scared to announce this despite only 1 in 20 faculty supporting DEI statements.

Quoting: https://www.msn.com/en-us/news/us/mit-scraps-diversity-state... The decision was made by MIT president Sally Kornbluth, with support from the school’s provost and six academic deans, a spokesperson told National Review on Sunday afternoon. “My goals are to tap into the full scope of human talent, to bring the very best to MIT, and to make sure they thrive once here,” Kornbluth said in a statement provided to…

steve_taylor's point is that had National Review not asked for a comment, MIT would never have formally announced this at all.

Re: MIT abandons requirement of DEI statements for hiring and promotions

#583

Earlier quoted context omitted.

UC Berkeley rejected 76% of applicants based on the DEI statement alone[1]. [1] https://thehill.com/opinion/education/480603-what-is-uc-davi...

I think that’s consistent with the example that I gave. I suspect someone who said “I plan to give all multiple choice exams in order to simplify grading.” in their teaching statement would likely get a poor rating? (The 76% refers to applications to an “Advancing diversity” grant program, so it seems a bit duplicitous to suggest it represents happens in faculty hiring?)

hm, standardized test are better for diversity, no?

Re: MIT abandons requirement of DEI statements for hiring and promotions

#584
post #120

Earlier quoted context omitted.

American society is a bit messed up going back to slavery (and maybe the treatment of the indigenous people). That part (America of all countries) is not a surprise. It's also not new, random e.g.: https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Political_correctness Maybe this also has to do with the general idea that it's not up to a government to do things, it's up to individuals, which to me is how Americans think. I would think t…

Just as a side point, approx 3-4% of slaves ended up in North America. Most went to the Carribbean and South America (Brazil mainly). Nobody ever seems to want to talk about those countries though for some reason. Nor do they seem particularly interested in the slave trade that exists now in many countries in one form or another. My guess is its because these other examples are not politically useful.

>Just as a side point, approx 3-4% of slaves ended up in North America. Most went to the Carribbean and South America (Brazil mainly). Nobody ever seems to want to talk about those countries though for some reason.

The average SJW/Redditor/DEI advocate sincerely believes that slavery has existed in only one country in the world's history: In the United States, involving Africans. The etymology of the word "slav"? Brazil? Haiti? Guadeloupe? North Africans enslaving Europeans? Vikings taking thralls? Feudalism? Never heard of 'em.

Re: MIT abandons requirement of DEI statements for hiring and promotions

#585

>DEI statements are important because they show individual awareness of historical inequities and current biases that form modern society. Only the currently approved ones. The perfect example: holocaust denial. Ask anyone in the US how many people died in the holocaust. The answer is 6 million and they are all Jews. The real number is 14 million with 8 million Slavs, 6 million Jews and 2 million misc of gays, Gypsie…

I was taught in high school that it was 6 million Jews. Standard American public high school. Teacher was left-wing. We read Diary of Anne Frank, Night by Elie Weisel, Number the Stars, etc. No holocaust denial going on. Yes, the Soviets were excluded. So were the Prussians, who were the victims of both Nazi and Soviet genocides. Nobody calls this holocaust denial.

« Nobody » may be too optimistic.

https://forward.com/culture/603271/jk-rowling-holocaust-stre...

Re: MIT abandons requirement of DEI statements for hiring and promotions

#586

In the spirit of trying to learn something from the community: while I can certainly understand the rationale and goals behind DEI programs (many of which I agree with, others not), I honestly can't understand these "DEI statements" at all. They always seemed very "1984" to me, and almost designed to engender resentment in a way that would ultimately backfire. So perhaps I'm in a like-minded echo chamber, but is ther…

A lot of things have "said purpose" and the "real purpose" because of which such absolutely kafkaesque things survive in organizations.

The said purpose of-course is to make sure that the candidate is "committed to diversity". We can argue all day on whether a statement is in any way good measure of it. It really isn't. I have helped people write such statements and we have always written it with cynicism and great contempt for the people who might actually read it.

But the "real reason" which such concept found a great foothold in modern American universities is that it kind of acts as top kill to get rid of potential people who might actually ask questions critical of various ideological positions that the university's internal bodies might have. You either want a radical zealot or at least someone who is willing to play along for his own career-maxing goals. What you don't want is someone who can call the emperor naked. Diversity statements are excellent way to achieve this as I have seen people write one line diversity statements such as 'I don't have one as I do not think diversity is important'. Such person IMO is more intellectually honest and would be a good addition to faculty position but will not be hired.

You are right that there is tons of resentment around the DEI BS that people have to go through. Tech companies have esoteric training problems with terms like "allyship" and "bystander effect" and all that which basically smells rotten to lot of engineers but they cynically complete those trainings any ways.

Re: MIT abandons requirement of DEI statements for hiring and promotions

#588

Earlier quoted context omitted.

For that, does "asians" mean people from the middle of asia (ie middle east), or people from south east asia (ie oriental)? Asking because the term has different meanings in say the UK (asian -> from middle east) vs Australia (asian -> from south east asia).

In the US almost no-one would say "asian" for any country west of Nepal. Sometimes they say "south-asian" for India or the surrounding countries, but even that term is only sometimes extended out to pakistan.

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Re: MIT abandons requirement of DEI statements for hiring and promotions

#589

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I’ve heard this same argument for DEI statements every time the topic has been debated: They sidestep arguments about DEI statements and instead retreat to safer arguments about how advancing DEI is a good thing. On one hand, I get it. Arguing for DEI in an abstract sense is much easier than arguing for specific interventions. On the other hand, this is the textbook example of a Motte-and-bailey fallacy, where the de…

I suspect you could get away with speaking out publicly on this if you said something like "DEI statements aren't actually advancing DEI" first. You need to break the link between the statements and the goal first, so that you don't look like you're attacking the goal.

You have a much more optimistic view of the current state of public discourse than I do.

There are plenty of organizations and people ready to tear down anything seen as against the party line for their own benefit. It's so much easier to criticize than contribute, and it only takes a few criticisms that ignore nuance and present things in a different context for critical mass to gather behind those misinterpretations.

The same things that make certain public forums resistant to this are the same things limit their growth, or that limit the spread of the message (content bubbles), so I'm not sure how to get around that without a major societal and cultural shift to how information is consumed.

Re: MIT abandons requirement of DEI statements for hiring and promotions

#590
post #572

Earlier quoted context omitted.

As an Asian, the DEI idea and how it was executed puzzled me as well. Apple's first VP of diversity said [1]: > “Diversity is the human experience. I get a little bit frustrated when diversity or the term diversity is tagged to the people of color, or the women, or the LGBT.” > “there can be 12 white, blue-eyed, blonde men in a room and they’re going to be diverse too because they’re going to bring a different life e…

From my personal experience as a central European male, they would be missing women and their outputs would have predictable and easily rectified mistakes. Unless their customer base is 90% male and they are OK with that. And it's exactly that the experience shapes us. In the West, gender roles are still very pronounced, shaping our experiences in certain ways. Males are taught to go for wins, females for maintainabi…

I don't think it's implied that she's making the claim that this group is going to be perfectly representative of their target demographic. She's simply saying that there is heterogeneity in a group that is ostensibly homogenous through a DEI lens.

Gender roles are just as pronounced in the East; me being in China as I write this. Maybe this says a little bit more about our biology and a little bit less about structural bias.

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