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MIT abandons requirement of DEI statements for hiring and promotions

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Re: MIT abandons requirement of DEI statements for hiring and promotions

#511

Post by MaxHoppersGhost »

throwaway22032 wrote: post #427
sensanaty wrote: post #415

The western idea of DEI has always puzzled me ever since I first came across it (or at least the D portion of DEI, which in my mind is the most important one). I'm a Serb by blood and grew up in and have lived in Indonesia for the majority of my life, and I went to an international school with kids from quite literally every single corner of the earth, many of them being some exotic mix of various ethnicities. Despit…

I identify very strongly with what you've written here. A guy who studied at Eton and a guy who grew up in a rural village in Uganda couldn't be any more different regardless of whether they can both tick a Black African box on an application form. The same is obviously true of a guy from a poor part of Glasgow vs. a guy who studied at Eton, regardless of whether both could tick a White British box. It's so far from…

This occurs at business school in a big way. They hit diversity quotas with super rich kids from Mexico City who are probably direct descendants of the conquistadors who pillaged the people these diversity quotas are supposed to benefit.

Re: MIT abandons requirement of DEI statements for hiring and promotions

#512

Post by Natsu »

eli_gottlieb wrote: post #489
thaumasiotes wrote: post #484

> Land acknowledgement statements are creeping into the US these days. What are the odds they make it to Israel?

You want us to acknowledge whether we're on the traditional tribal lands of Dan, Binyamin, Menasseh, Yehudah, etc?

They'd probably want to go back to the Canaanites.

Re: MIT abandons requirement of DEI statements for hiring and promotions

#513

Post by Dylan16807 »

CyberDildonics wrote: post #506
kanbara wrote: post #504

Earlier quoted context omitted.

red has pretty strong connotations in some east asian cultures. just like how 13 is taboo, 4 and 7 can be taboo. these things do matter sometimes. respect matters.

Show me software that's bright red due and doesn't use 4 and 7 due to 'culture'.

That's a big goalpost move from the original claim that meanings can be different.

Re: MIT abandons requirement of DEI statements for hiring and promotions

#514

Post by bpiche »

hallway_monitor wrote: post #322
userbinator wrote: post #127

The sooner we realise that DEI is making us head towards a https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Harrison_Bergeron situation, the better off everyone will be.

TL;DR - a dystopia where anyone with an "advantage" is "handicapped" to make everyone "equal". Advantages such as intelligence and beauty must not be used to let anyone get ahead. It was adapted into a short film - 2081 - and it's very very good. It's free on this site: https://www.teaching2081.org/watch-the-film#form

It was also adapted into a (terrible) full length feature film with Sean Astin (Samwise Gamgee). If you like Vonnegut, you might like it.

Re: MIT abandons requirement of DEI statements for hiring and promotions

#515

Post by bpiche »

wiseowise wrote: post #209
userbinator wrote: post #127

The sooner we realise that DEI is making us head towards a https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Harrison_Bergeron situation, the better off everyone will be.

Jesus Christ. What a dark story.

Typical Vonnegut. I sincerely mean this, may he rest in peace. The man was haunted.

Re: MIT abandons requirement of DEI statements for hiring and promotions

#516

Post by janalsncm »

skissane wrote: post #486
janalsncm wrote: post #453

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I think we have a disagreement about how to deal with a situation where two different concepts are called by the same name. In some sense they may seem the same because they have the same name, but in another they actually have no relationship. There is no logical path from A to B or vice versa. It’s not like the Norway terrorist was simply disagreeing with cultural Marxism in the academic sense. He wasn’t engaging w…

Well, coming back to my World Zionist Congress example – you might equally say that antisemites who accuse the WZC of "secretly controlling the world" are not "engaging with it at all, and simply borrowing the term (or more likely, organically reinventing it)". And yet, I don't think that makes sense. Antisemites make all kinds of unhinged, baseless accusations against Jewish people and their community organisations…

Language is a tool. We use words because they are useful. As a practical matter, the conspiracy versions of terms have only passing resemblance with their real-world counterparts. Mentioning the relevant people isn’t actually engaging with the content of it, it is more like worldbuilding in a fictional story. New York is a real place but Spider-Man doesn’t live there. MI6 is a real organization but James Bond isn’t on their payroll.

Re: MIT abandons requirement of DEI statements for hiring and promotions

#518

Post by jacklbk »

sensanaty wrote: post #415

The western idea of DEI has always puzzled me ever since I first came across it (or at least the D portion of DEI, which in my mind is the most important one). I'm a Serb by blood and grew up in and have lived in Indonesia for the majority of my life, and I went to an international school with kids from quite literally every single corner of the earth, many of them being some exotic mix of various ethnicities. Despit…

As an Asian, the DEI idea and how it was executed puzzled me as well.

Apple's first VP of diversity said [1]:

> “Diversity is the human experience. I get a little bit frustrated when diversity or the term diversity is tagged to the people of color, or the women, or the LGBT.”

> “there can be 12 white, blue-eyed, blonde men in a room and they’re going to be diverse too because they’re going to bring a different life experience and life perspective to the conversation.”

She had to resigned [2] for saying so. That really confused me, isn't what she said... true?

[1]: https://qz.com/1097425/apples-first-ever-vp-of-diversity-and... [2]: https://nypost.com/2017/11/17/apples-diversity-chief-lasts-j...

Re: MIT abandons requirement of DEI statements for hiring and promotions

#519

Post by akerl_ »

rayiner wrote: post #400
tptacek wrote: post #345

Earlier quoted context omitted.

It's "their" country? It's yours too. Be the dog-free workplace you want to see in the world.

I don’t subscribe to that view of nationhood. It’s a constant source of discomfort (not just at the office, but visiting people’s houses or visiting my in laws) but it’s not my place to impose on the people whose ancestors built this country. I feel bad enough that I won’t let my wife have a dog, but I have to draw the line somewhere.

On behalf of the group of slightly-longer-ago immigrants to the country that you're classifying as having "built this country": I'm not sure why my ancestors coming here a while back means you can't say "I don't want a dog next to my desk at work".

If you're a person who lives here and works here, you get to participate in defining what the society and workplace look like, respectively. Having to type it out actually feels weird, because it's pretty self-evident. You're here, the things you do impact the culture.

Re: MIT abandons requirement of DEI statements for hiring and promotions

#520

Post by Dylan16807 »

naasking wrote: post #181
heresie-dabord wrote: post #168

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> is there anyone that actually defends these DEI statements with a coherent argument When Richard Dawkins spoke at UC Berkeley in 2008, he argued that "raising awareness" about feminism by changing how we speak and think has changed society for the better. (In the same discussion, he seeks to do the same for children's freedom from their parents' religion.) There is no doubt that Western society has changed how it t…

> That said, Dawkins has in more recent years found himself opposing identity politics as they seek to change language usage and perceptions of gender. Correction: Dawkins doesn't care one whit about gender, and he has literally said so. He only cares when people cross into talking about sex, make incorrect claims about the nature of sex (spectrums and such), conflate sex with gender, and make unscientific claims abo…

What claims is he making specifically?

> the nature of sex (spectrums and such)

Sex shows itself to be a spectrum pretty often.

> unscientific claims about being able to change one's sex

Phenotype or genotype?

They don't always match even without any medical intervention, and a change in hormones can drastically change phenotype.

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