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MIT abandons requirement of DEI statements for hiring and promotions

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Re: MIT abandons requirement of DEI statements for hiring and promotions

#301

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Isn't mortality supposed to be check-and-balance on the bullshit in science?

Did you really mean mortality as in "exercising the 2nd Amendment", or morality ?

I think they meant mortality as in the old guard that have power and use it to protect their point of view die off and are replaced with a new guard that does the same.

Re: MIT abandons requirement of DEI statements for hiring and promotions

#302

In the spirit of trying to learn something from the community: while I can certainly understand the rationale and goals behind DEI programs (many of which I agree with, others not), I honestly can't understand these "DEI statements" at all. They always seemed very "1984" to me, and almost designed to engender resentment in a way that would ultimately backfire. So perhaps I'm in a like-minded echo chamber, but is ther…

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Re: MIT abandons requirement of DEI statements for hiring and promotions

#303
Most applicants for a desirable position are likely to come from the majority group of your region. So for a minority candidate to be selected they would not only have to be equal to the others - but better. That seems unfair to me. What does that mean over the long term regarding how you hire?

That said, discussions about DEI tend to ignore that thing we are never meant to talk about: social class. Social class and money overrides everything.

Re: MIT abandons requirement of DEI statements for hiring and promotions

#305
post #22

The American focus on race is a bit insane to outsiders. Putting such a big focus on race in university applications is just weird. Even worse, having top universities openly discriminate against people based on their race or heritage with affirmative action or similar policies, all in the name of equality, is unbelievable to Europeans like me. What the hell is wrong with the US if a person has a worse chance to be a…

I'm European too and I can assure you that non-white people are discriminated at the admission stage to top European universities. Not via race, but via name. It's well known that universities and landlords reject people because they have a Muslim sounding name. We have DEI in Europe too, but here it's increasingly codified into law.

In Poland, admission to public universities is only based on your standardized test score. People grading standardized tests don't know your name or anything beyond a number, so discrimination is simply impossible.

Re: MIT abandons requirement of DEI statements for hiring and promotions

#306

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Cultural differences exist. For example, colors have different meanings in different cultures: https://blog.grio.com/2020/06/uxui-design-across-cultures-us... Ethnicity is then being used as a proxy for culture, even though it's a bad one, because it's a visible one. It's basically starting from the premise that cultural diversity is valuable and then applying Goodhart's Law to the thing most easily measured. Whereas…

UI colors can be racist? This is ideological tea-leaf reading.

UI colors can have different meanings in different cultures.

Suppose you don't care anything for all of this political noise and you just want to make money. Do you want to use the same colors on your website in the countries where red implies danger as the ones where red implies prosperity and vitality? If it will be the same for everyone, might knowing how some large subset of the viewers will interpret it change what you choose?

Re: MIT abandons requirement of DEI statements for hiring and promotions

#307

I never understood the american obsession with race (well, and sexuality). I live in a small EU country on the edge of the balkans... what the hell should I write if I wanted to get hired? I'm white... everyone here is white... but just by living here, I might have a more "diverse" worldview (compared to a white american is massachussets, with enouh knowledge and money to attend MIT) than someone of a different race…

Which sort of goes hand in hand with the idea of white privilege. If I grow up dirt poor, with uneducated parents, in a rural dirt poor region where there wasn’t anyone except other white people in a 100 mile radius for me to be favoured over, apparently I’ve still benefited from some sort of systemic or inherent bias in favour of myself on the basis of race. Which apparently needs to be corrected and puts me at a disadvantage when applying to certain schools or jobs.

Re: MIT abandons requirement of DEI statements for hiring and promotions

#308
post #3

Clicked through some links in the article. Really mind boggling material. How did such garbage end up in top universities is really weird.

I don't understand how this crap got into America of all countries

It was too outrageous to be believed until it was too late.

Remember the term "SJW" (social justice warrior) from around a decade ago? That was wokeism and DEI before it got its current branding. The people who saw this coming were dismissed as crazy.

Re: MIT abandons requirement of DEI statements for hiring and promotions

#309

In the spirit of trying to learn something from the community: while I can certainly understand the rationale and goals behind DEI programs (many of which I agree with, others not), I honestly can't understand these "DEI statements" at all. They always seemed very "1984" to me, and almost designed to engender resentment in a way that would ultimately backfire. So perhaps I'm in a like-minded echo chamber, but is ther…

This is the premise: There are outstanding systemic inequities at every level of American society. The threat these represent to our long term survival and prosperity are such that we are keen to at least acknowledge and mark our and our prospective collaborators’ efforts to improve the status quo. Maybe you don’t accept that. Maybe it’s asking for a virtue signal in service of performative posturing. Maybe this requ…

> There are outstanding systemic inequities at every level of American society.

I think this needs to be backed up with evidence rather than merely asserted. I've been reading through a number of books by Thomas Sowell lately and he presents enough statistical evidence to explain disparities without any hint of racism, sexism, etc. Regardless of if you agree with him or not, the mere fact that alternate theories exist that explain why society looks as it does today should be enough to question the foundational problem that DEI claims to address.

Take as an example the gender pay gap which is presented as women earning 77 cents for every dollar a man makes. While statistically true in aggregate, DEI tends to treat this axiomatically as a sign of sexism. If you dig into the statistics the vast majority of this difference is due to the fact that many women voluntarily take time off of their career to raise children.

Re: MIT abandons requirement of DEI statements for hiring and promotions

#310
post #262

Earlier quoted context omitted.

My first reaction to this news was, “fine, sounds like a silly requirement.” However, being a PhD graduate from a minority background, I really have to thank my advisor for the undergraduate outreach work he did, without which there is realistically a negligible chance I would have ended up with a PhD and a great research career. I don’t know what motivated him to do this work, but from a purely pragmatic perspective…

Perhaps you were simply evaluated against your noggin and not your skin? Edit: what are the arguments against this?

they very well might have been evaluated based entirely on their abilities alone.

A toxic element of DEI is that now they have to always wonder (as does everyone else) if it was done because of their skin color/gender/race, regardless of what their mentor says. Because it very well may be true as well.

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