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Flags Are Not Languages

flagsarenotlanguages.com

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Re: Flags Are Not Languages

#21

Post by ReleaseCandidat »

greenish_shores wrote: post #18
ReleaseCandidat wrote: post #11

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> I don't know which of 语言设定 and 重置设备 will allow me to set the language back to English. That's why the languages should be presented in their "own" native form (name and alphabet), at least additionally. Which - using the native form and the translation in the current active locale - Apple does, btw., so at least on MacOS your problem does not exist.

The should be presented mainly, mostly and primarily in their native form. The form for currently set language should be additional. It's a no-brainer which makes demand for using flags unnecessary, almost making it absurd to use them. But, wait. 语言设定 is "Language settings" and 重置设备 is "Reset device". So the problem here is a bit different, right?

Exactly, that's also how Apple (I'm starting to feel bad to constantly mention them) does it, the native form is "normal font face", the translated one is in lighter grey.

Re: Flags Are Not Languages

#22

Post by bradrn »

mik1998 wrote: post #15
quadhome wrote: post #8

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Wikipedia uses a “文Ａ” icon; IMHO far better than a flag. What flag would you expect to see? As for finding the language in the menu, listening a language in the foreign language seems like bad design too. The menu should list “English” as an option! See: https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Language#/languages

I personally had no idea that icon let you change the language of articles (a concept I explicitly looked for before). Still confused at what the icon is actually supposed to mean.

It’s a Chinese character and a Latin letter. The idea, presumably, being that of ‘multiple languages’.

Re: Flags Are Not Languages

#23

Post by quadhome »

ReleaseCandidat wrote: post #13
quadhome wrote: post #8

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Wikipedia uses a “文Ａ” icon; IMHO far better than a flag. What flag would you expect to see? As for finding the language in the menu, listening a language in the foreign language seems like bad design too. The menu should list “English” as an option! See: https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Language#/languages

Both versions is the correct answer, like in the screenshot in the article.

Yes! I meant to write “only” in the foreign language. Good catch.

Re: Flags Are Not Languages

#24

Post by jackvalentine »

I fairly often find myself deciding between flag of the United Kingdom or the flag of the United States of America as a choice for ‘English’ wondering will this just be different spelling or will there be some other ill effect of choosing the wrong one.

I live in neither country, of course.

Re: Flags Are Not Languages

#25

Post by raverbashing »

JimDabell wrote: post #9
James_K wrote: post #2

Counterpoint to this website: it is convenient to have symbols to represent things. I don't see them suggesting anything better than flags.

Having the wrong symbol for something is worse than the inconvenience of not having a symbol.

"Wrong symbol"?! For the most part nobody cares

Now, sure, in some cases, like the Gatwick example in the site, that is wrong/questionable.

> There are some curious flag choices made for representing languages: such as Andorra for Catalan. With a population of around 80,000, there are are fewer people in Andorra than the seating capacity of Catalonia’s largest football ground, FC Barcelona’s Nou Camp (almost 100,000 people).

But flags can be a good help for people with some linguistic/reading difficulties (besides the issues when you need to find the 'switch language' option in an unknown (to you) language.

Re: Flags Are Not Languages

#26

Post by iraqmtpizza »

jumasheff wrote: post #20
dadoum wrote: post #7

Keyboard layouts are more country related than language related. At least among French speakers that's the case. So using country flags probably makes sense here.

Keyboard layouts might be linked to specific countries, but language usage extends far beyond national borders. For example, Russian is spoken by communities in the US who may not identify with the Russian flag (or even stand against it), and French is widely used in places like Niger, where the French flag may hold little relevance. Thus, associating languages strictly with country flags can overlook the diverse and…

Associating my use of Apple products with Apple Computer overlooks the diverse and global nature of computing communities

Re: Flags Are Not Languages

#27

Post by siva7 »

peterhi wrote: post #4

But the flag was useful to show in the ui where the language setting was. This is especially useful when the language has been set to something I cannot read. I don't know which of 语言设定 and 重置设备 will allow me to set the language back to English. Also flags in the menu means that I can find English easier than 英语

You solve this by displaying the language in its original writing. So it's not swiss but Schwitzerisch!

Re: Flags Are Not Languages

#28

Post by marginalia_nu »

ReleaseCandidat wrote: post #16
cabirum wrote: post #12

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Wrong symbols are everywhere . Ever seen a save button with a floppy disk icon? Its not about pedantic accuracy -- if something works, do not touch it.

But we are talking about using flags of countries for languages, which is a totally different "kind of wrong".

I'm not sure it is. Symbols operate by analogy, all language does.

The question isn't "where are you from", but "which country speaks a language that is similar to how you speak". If you're living in the UK and are given the choice between Denmark and Australia, the latter is the more similar.

Re: Flags Are Not Languages

#29

Post by Ekaros »

jackvalentine wrote: post #24

I fairly often find myself deciding between flag of the United Kingdom or the flag of the United States of America as a choice for ‘English’ wondering will this just be different spelling or will there be some other ill effect of choosing the wrong one. I live in neither country, of course.

Just be neutral and go for India. Or Australia. Or randomly pick from all English speaking countries...

Re: Flags Are Not Languages

#30

Post by ncclporterror »

The website argues that using a flag for a language may confuse or even offend users. It argues English would most appropriately be represented by the flag of England, but few people know the flag of England, so English is usually represented by the flag of the UK or the US, neither of which are appropriate because other languages are spoken in the UK and English does not originate from the US.

I would argue that using either the UK or US flag is less likely to confuse anyone than not using any flag, and that anyone offended by this needs to grow a tougher skin.

The fact that any mapping from a language to a flag is to some extent arbitrary does not imply that no mapping at all is better. This sounds like a variation of the Sorites paradox.

Furthermore, I find it amusing that a website dedicated to languages, which are roughly sets of arbitrary conventions we use to communicate, is offended by the choice of another arbitrary convention to communicate.

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