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Cardio fitness is a strong, consistent predictor of morbidity and mortality

bjsm.bmj.com

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Re: Cardio fitness is a strong, consistent predictor of morbidity and mortality

#491

Post by SirMaster »

bpizzi wrote: post #365
weatherlite wrote: post #131

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Why is Vo2Max important for people who aren't professional athletes? It's not that I'm not curious about my number I'm just not sure how helpful it is going to be - I need to understand what pace I can hold 5k, 10k, 21k and eventually 42k. I think the best way to know that is racing again and again and getting a good feel for your aerobic / threshold zone. Whether my Vo2max is 51 or 52 - does it matter to me?

> looking at VO2 max in relation to all-cause mortality, we see a very clear trend. Simply bringing your VO2 max from ‘low’ (bottom 25th percentile) to ‘below average’ (25th to 50th percentile) is associated with a 50% reduction in all-cause mortality. When you go from ‘low’ to ‘above average’ (50th to 75th percentile) the risk reduction is closer to 70%! https://peterattiamd.com/category/exercise/vo2-max/

But isn't it one of those things where someone with a higher VO2 is likely doing healthy things that they have lower risk. Rather than a lower risk simply because their VO2 is higher.

Re: Cardio fitness is a strong, consistent predictor of morbidity and mortality

#492

Post by SirMaster »

weatherlite wrote: post #245
noonanibus wrote: post #201

Earlier quoted context omitted.

It's not that hard a leap is it? For some reason it seems oblivious to non-sufferers that the idea of a physical treatment for a mental ailment is a given? For most folks, that connection doesn't exist. Hell, I work out 3x a week and even I don't notice the obvious side-effects even though I'm certain they exist. When we're dealing with ordinary people living their daily lives, the idea that something so "non-mental"…

> Sorry. But I'm an avid gym-goer and even I have to remind myself of the positive it's doing. We're not all the same. Maybe you're one of the people that for whatever reason exercise does nothing to - though I highly doubt it. I'm not sure what training you do exactly but to reap most of the benefits the workout should include moderate cardio work. I don't think going to lift weights for a 40-60 minutes with plenty…

Hmm, I've never felt any "noticeable" positive effect of exercise either.

I didn't exercise basically at all for well over decade. But I felt fine, wasn't overweight or gaining weight or anything like that.

But I decided that I should probably exercise, so have been for awhile now. Fortunately I have what appears to be a very high amount of self control so I'm able to just force myself to go exercise even though I hate every second of it and it just feels like a waste of time.

I haven't noticed any changes to anything that I can think of since going from no exercise to 3-4 days a week of about 1 hour sessions of zone 2+ exercise.

I just keep waiting for this magical benefit that some people talk about, but I get nothing.

I'm only doing it because if I don't, supposedly "bad things" will happen to my body in the future.

Re: Cardio fitness is a strong, consistent predictor of morbidity and mortality

#493

Post by FumblingBear »

01100011 wrote: post #284
keybored wrote: post #266

Some of my peers are deep into running. I don’t get it. Running is sometimes fun for me but most often painful. Then I overheard one of them (the fittest) say to a budding runner that he [should] do mostly easy sessions. Okay what’s easy to him? He said that so slow that it can feel awkward and unnatural. What? Then I searched around and found out about Zone 2 and how you should do most of your work in that zone when…

Are you carrying excess weight? I've been overweight most of my life. For a while in my 40s I hiked a lot and my BMI dropped into the normal range. When that happened, I became a runner. It felt amazing. I would run 5+ miles and felt like I could keep going forever. Once I put the weight back on(new relationship with someone who liked to eat), I couldn't run. It hurt and didn't feel good. I don't know what the curren…

I'm 6'2" ~265 lbs (pretty fat) and around 30 years old. I started running to train for a 5k with some buds and found that I can comfortably run in zone 2 for about 1 hour with only mild soreness and minimal joint pain.

I've only really been getting into it in the past ~6 weeks or so, so still a beginner. Just wanted to chime in and say that running while fat is totally doable and you just gotta ease into it and try to avoid pain! Discomfort might be a part of the process, but running slowly in zone 2 has become quite relaxing and a great part of my day, despite having hated running when I was in the best shape of my life.

I used to only run in zone 4-5 because I focused on speed and just assumed misery was a necessary part of the running experience. It's been a total blessing to learn that it doesn't need to be like that at all!

Hope you can find a good balance for what works for you as a heavier person. Listening to your body and knowing your limitations are super important. Just wanted to share my experience as a heavier guy too.

Re: Cardio fitness is a strong, consistent predictor of morbidity and mortality

#494

Post by 01100011 »

FumblingBear wrote: post #493
01100011 wrote: post #284

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Are you carrying excess weight? I've been overweight most of my life. For a while in my 40s I hiked a lot and my BMI dropped into the normal range. When that happened, I became a runner. It felt amazing. I would run 5+ miles and felt like I could keep going forever. Once I put the weight back on(new relationship with someone who liked to eat), I couldn't run. It hurt and didn't feel good. I don't know what the curren…

I'm 6'2" ~265 lbs (pretty fat) and around 30 years old. I started running to train for a 5k with some buds and found that I can comfortably run in zone 2 for about 1 hour with only mild soreness and minimal joint pain. I've only really been getting into it in the past ~6 weeks or so, so still a beginner. Just wanted to chime in and say that running while fat is totally doable and you just gotta ease into it and try t…

> running while fat is totally doable

> around 30 years old

These two things go together. I'm almost 50 and in my experience you're not going to want to do this after 40 but it depends on many factors (shoes, joint health, body mechanics, what you run on..).

Re: Cardio fitness is a strong, consistent predictor of morbidity and mortality

#495

Post by ktosobcy »

lukas099 wrote: post #453
ktosobcy wrote: post #426

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I have degenerated disk already so PT and exercises helps somewhat but it's not going away sadly...

Many, many people have such mechanical abnormalities and never experience pain. Many people without such abnormalities do experience pain. There’s surprisingly little association between them.

Yeah, that's another thing that neurologist and neurosurgeon told me... all in all last year changed my perspective on medicine and how much we actually know about our bodies :D

Re: Cardio fitness is a strong, consistent predictor of morbidity and mortality

#497

Post by nojvek »

maksimur wrote: post #434
DevX101 wrote: post #432

Earlier quoted context omitted.

The data in the linked article from 20 million observations vs your 1 observed incident suggests you should keep going to the gym. You have no idea what his pre-existing medical conditions were.

I don't know about the guy in that specific incident, but in my case he was apparently healthy with no health complications, having had regular checkups on top of the mandatory ones (to be able to frequent a gym). This is the scary part for me.

How old was he?

We doubled our lifespan from 32 to 75 from 1900 to now. In a 100 years, we changed the game.

Once we pass 50, there is a lot of complex machinery at play including genetics, past history, diet, drinking, smoking e.t.c. to cause death.

Re: Cardio fitness is a strong, consistent predictor of morbidity and mortality

#498

Post by FumblingBear »

01100011 wrote: post #494
FumblingBear wrote: post #493

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I'm 6'2" ~265 lbs (pretty fat) and around 30 years old. I started running to train for a 5k with some buds and found that I can comfortably run in zone 2 for about 1 hour with only mild soreness and minimal joint pain. I've only really been getting into it in the past ~6 weeks or so, so still a beginner. Just wanted to chime in and say that running while fat is totally doable and you just gotta ease into it and try t…

> running while fat is totally doable > around 30 years old These two things go together. I'm almost 50 and in my experience you're not going to want to do this after 40 but it depends on many factors (shoes, joint health, body mechanics, what you run on..).

Absolutely! I'm definitely not trying to minimize the impact that aging has on our bodies, just add another data point to the discussion :)

I've just seen people my age and younger suggest that running while fat is too hard and give up on it but I've started to enjoy it for the first time in my life despite my weight.

Thanks for sharing your thoughts!

Re: Cardio fitness is a strong, consistent predictor of morbidity and mortality

#499

Post by Mathnerd314 »

bo1024 wrote: post #328
Mathnerd314 wrote: post #123

The relationship isn't linear, you can see in https://bjsm.bmj.com/content/54/20/1195#sec-16 that above 2200 MET-minutes/week there is increased cancer risk which outweighs the cardiovascular benefits. Now admittedly it is a very weak correlation, and MET measurement is imprecise, but I think it is safe to say that there are risks associated with over-exercising and while being in shape is good, being a ultra-maratho…

If the authors don't draw conclusions from that, I wouldn't either. For example, suppose the main impact of exercise on cancer risk were simply the correlation with time spent outdoors in the sun. Then you would expect to see a chart like this. But a conclusion like 'limit running to 3 hours/week, while walking can be up to 12 hours/week' would be totally wrong.

They do draw that conclusion - "the lowest point estimate for all cause mortality was approximately 2000 MET min". What their analysis did not identify is what level of exercise beyond that results in a significant increase in mortality risk. If you look at the individual studies that have categories above 2200, (Slattery 1989, Arraiz 1992, Besson 2008, Kvaavik 2010, Paganini-Hill 2011, Brown 2012, Arem 2015, Huerta 2016, Klenk 2016, Celis-Morales 2017, Lear 2017, Zhou 2017, and Liu 2018), there is some variation - almost every study shows a U-shape, but the lowest point differs by gender, age, measurement method, BMI, and so on. And the effects of too much exercise are small compared to the effects of too little, so it is not surprising that their basic univariate analysis with Stata glst is unable to resolve it. But given the number of U-shape studies I think it is reasonable to conclude that some amount is too much - in the absence of reliable statistics I would say to trust one's body and if it feels like you are pushing yourself hard every week then cut back.

Re: Cardio fitness is a strong, consistent predictor of morbidity and mortality

#500

Post by thefz »

darth_avocado wrote: post #51
rTX5CMRXIfFG wrote: post #41

Earlier quoted context omitted.

That sounds like the sort of stuff you’d remember because it validates what you already want to believe

Smoking does reduce appetite and therefore can help in weight loss/getting in shape. (I don’t smoke)

Getting rid of all the tar and chemicals takes a significant daily toll on the body, which has a definite caloric cost.
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