Cardio fitness is a strong, consistent predictor of morbidity and mortality • Hacker News Board

Re: Cardio fitness is a strong, consistent predictor of morbidity and mortality

#451

Post by lukas099 » Fri, May 03, 2024, 2:54 PM UTC

ktosobcy wrote: post #295

keybored wrote: post #266

Some of my peers are deep into running. I don’t get it. Running is sometimes fun for me but most often painful. Then I overheard one of them (the fittest) say to a budding runner that he [should] do mostly easy sessions. Okay what’s easy to him? He said that so slow that it can feel awkward and unnatural. What? Then I searched around and found out about Zone 2 and how you should do most of your work in that zone when…

I do love running and indeed it's better to jog slowly for longer time... though, to avoid injuries - please do exercises before and after because you can easily injure your (lower-)back and knees (talking from experience, chronic lower-back pain after ~20y of running…)

This type of talk is harmful. The risks of not exercising absolutely dwarf the risks of exercising, and telling people that they are going to injure themselves by “doing it wrong” makes them less likely to exercise.

It also makes them more likely to feel pain, since pain has biological, psychological, and social inputs.

Re: Cardio fitness is a strong, consistent predictor of morbidity and mortality

#452

Post by Delphiza » Fri, May 03, 2024, 2:54 PM UTC

beezlebroxxxxxx wrote: post #359

01100011 wrote: post #284

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Are you carrying excess weight? I've been overweight most of my life. For a while in my 40s I hiked a lot and my BMI dropped into the normal range. When that happened, I became a runner. It felt amazing. I would run 5+ miles and felt like I could keep going forever. Once I put the weight back on(new relationship with someone who liked to eat), I couldn't run. It hurt and didn't feel good. I don't know what the curren…

Unless you have actual mechanical problems with your joints or you're, as you said, heavy or out of normal BMI, then running is actually healthy for your joints. One caveat is the surface you run on. Running on softer surfaces than asphalt can be easier on your legs and feet. Most injuries from running come from repetitive motion overuse and are muscular. People go out way too hard then discover that their muscles ar…

That is why strength and conditioning is so important. A lot of knee pain is not from the impact on the joint but because of the repetitive twisting and rolling because glutes and other muscles are not able to hold knees and other joints stable, especially when tired.

Re: Cardio fitness is a strong, consistent predictor of morbidity and mortality

#453

Post by lukas099 » Fri, May 03, 2024, 2:55 PM UTC

ktosobcy wrote: post #426

jimhefferon wrote: post #400

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Just a note to encourage you to see a physical therapist, before deciding that there's nothing to do. I've been a jogger since 1971, started having back pain all the time. A physical therapist gave me 15 minutes worth of exercises everyday. Pain gone. Good luck!

I have degenerated disk already so PT and exercises helps somewhat but it's not going away sadly...

Many, many people have such mechanical abnormalities and never experience pain. Many people without such abnormalities do experience pain. There’s surprisingly little association between them.

Re: Cardio fitness is a strong, consistent predictor of morbidity and mortality

#454

Post by Workaccount2 » Fri, May 03, 2024, 2:56 PM UTC

pjc50 wrote: post #378

danielbln wrote: post #351

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I've been streak running (so running at least a mile per day with no exceptions, mostly 5ks during the week, 10-20k on weekends) for almost 8 years (2817 days). The single best tip I give to everyone is "slow down! run slow!" Of course, almost no-one adheres to it unless they are already well practiced. It's just deeply ingrained in peoples heads that "only if it's hard or painful it must work". Then people check out…

> It's just deeply ingrained in peoples heads that "only if it's hard or painful it must work". Yes - this meme is extremely prevalent and extremely effective at putting people off exercise.

I think it is simply because when you are a kid, "running" means "going as fast as possible"

"Running" in the sport of "Running" means something different than "running" on the playground (which is more akin to sprinting).

Re: Cardio fitness is a strong, consistent predictor of morbidity and mortality

#455

Post by vasco » Fri, May 03, 2024, 3:03 PM UTC

safety1st wrote: post #439

vasco wrote: post #290

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> Those cheesecakes are only for special occasions now and it's because C.F. is required to disclose calories, I'd be fatter if not for this simple government intervention. Nothing to do with self control How is eating a cake from a store "nothing to do with self control". It's not like you were buying vegetables and turns out big sugar made the vegetables be worse for you. You not knowing if the cake was 800 calorie…

No, it's much easier to pass on dessert when you know it's 1600 calories as opposed to if you think it's much less. In essence the disclosure of how bad that particular item really is reduces the amount of willpower required to avoid it. If this wasn't true, all these restaurants wouldn't have kept the calorie counts of these dishes secret until the government forced them to share that info. I mean this is common sen…

"Less self control needed" which is your argument in this follow-up comment is very different from "Nothing to do with self control" in your original comment.

Re: Cardio fitness is a strong, consistent predictor of morbidity and mortality

#456

Post by ramblenode » Fri, May 03, 2024, 3:07 PM UTC

cycomanic wrote: post #341

bjornsing wrote: post #315

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> People implying that the study shows only correlation really don't seem to understand how we establish causality in science. Or perhaps you don’t fully understand the challenges of establishing causality? Just because an intervention causes an improvement in some bio markers that are associated with lower mortality (unfortunately) does not mean that the intervention will cause lower mortality. The classic example i…

> > People implying that the study shows only correlation really don't seem to understand how we establish causality in science. > Or perhaps you don’t fully understand the challenges of establishing causality? Just because an intervention causes an improvement in some bio markers that are associated with lower mortality (unfortunately) does not mean that the intervention will cause lower mortality. > The classic exa…

> A RCT does not establish causality. That's essentially my point. A single study/experiment never proofs causality. You need a theory to explain the causality and multiple studies that falsify other possible causality mechanisms.

This might be a good heuristic for assigning confidence to results, but in theory, an RCT absolutely does establish causality, assuming internal, external, construct, and statistical validity of the study.

Multiple studies may not be better than one good study (assuming the above), which can be tested by looking at the leverage in a meta-anlaysis.

Having a theory is kind of orthogonal to a study finding a true positive result. Almost every published study, true or false, invokes some kind of theory, true or false. There is a joke in the soft sciences along the lines that you make up a new theory for every study.

Re: Cardio fitness is a strong, consistent predictor of morbidity and mortality

#457

Post by Workaccount2 » Fri, May 03, 2024, 3:08 PM UTC

apatheticonion wrote: post #355

bpizzi wrote: post #353

Earlier quoted context omitted.

There's also value in spending some time in zone 5 [1]: this is where the heart is really trained as a muscle, and where the cardiovascular system is pushed to its limit (the famous vo2max: increasing vo2max is done in zone 5, for ex. with HIIT [2]). Zone 2 is all about giving the mitochondries a chance to get better at providing a steady energy flow over a long time, mainly by optimizing for burning fat as fuel inst…

I got a indoor bicycle trainer (with power readings) and do intervals in Zone 5. I created a custom "track" on TrainerDay and spend about 20 minutes 2-3 times a week doing this. It feels like dying - but I like being able to extract the most value out of the lowest time investment

Slightly tangential, but getting an e-bike has got me doing way more miles (by probably an order of magnitude) than I have ever done before - and way more total exercise overall.

Since you can dial in the assist, it basically turns a regular bike into an exercise bike. Or conversely, an exercise bike that actually rides around outside. If I want to fry my legs on a hill, I can drop the assist and really feel the grind. If I want to take it easy on the hill back home though, I can boost the assist so that it takes practically no effort.

It's just this amazing tool that reliably will trick your brain into working out. You take the ebike out because it is so effortless to ride, but inevitably you end up lowering the assist to feel the burn a bit on your rides.

Re: Cardio fitness is a strong, consistent predictor of morbidity and mortality

#458

Post by throwaway2037 » Fri, May 03, 2024, 3:17 PM UTC

wasmitnetzen wrote: post #319

s1artibartfast wrote: post #255

Earlier quoted context omitted.

90% of people regain weight because they go back to eating like they have a death wish. I think conflating between mental health and eating is at the heart of the obesity epidemic. Nobody will die if they skip a few meals. They will suffer some moderate discomfort depending on how much they fixate on it. I can go a week without eating and a few days is trivial. The longest a human has gone without food is 381 days an…

Please do not assume your experience is universal. You simply cannot know how it feels for other people to be hungry, it might be a completely different feeling than what you get.

This. Exactly. It took many, many years as an adult to realise that I was blessed with incredible genes that allowed me to reduce calorie intake without many negative consequences (insane hunger cravings, etc.). My point: I didn't do anything to "earn" this -- it was granted to me by birth. It gave me extra empathy for people who don't have it, who are trying to control their weight. It is a brutal battle. I always have so much respect for people who stuggle with weight gain, but beat the demons and lose weight long term. They really are someone special!

Re: Cardio fitness is a strong, consistent predictor of morbidity and mortality

#459

Post by rubbertoe » Fri, May 03, 2024, 3:21 PM UTC

K0nserv wrote: post #389

danielbln wrote: post #351

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I've been streak running (so running at least a mile per day with no exceptions, mostly 5ks during the week, 10-20k on weekends) for almost 8 years (2817 days). The single best tip I give to everyone is "slow down! run slow!" Of course, almost no-one adheres to it unless they are already well practiced. It's just deeply ingrained in peoples heads that "only if it's hard or painful it must work". Then people check out…

I definitely went on this journey with my running. At first I would run very short distances at very high pace(zone 4/5), but I fell out of it. I picked up running again last year and ended up more in zone 3/4, but for the last six months I've been aiming for zone 2 in most of my runs. I've had some knee pain recently so I've not been running much, focusing instead on knee strengthening exercise. On my last run I dis…

Same here with the knee pain after running. Any particular knee strengthening exercises recommendations? There is so much out there these days.

Re: Cardio fitness is a strong, consistent predictor of morbidity and mortality

#460

Post by Workaccount2 » Fri, May 03, 2024, 3:22 PM UTC

Fricken wrote: post #243

cycomanic wrote: post #168

Weird that people seem to assert that causality is not established? There are hundreds to thousands of studies that show that pretty much all markers for mortality and morbidity go down with excercise, i.e. put someone regulalrly on a treadmill for a couple of month and pretty much all health markers improve. People implying that the study shows only correlation really don't seem to understand how we establish causal…

Exercise is a four letter word for many on HN. Content posted here touting the various benefits of exercise is always met with mental gymnastics from commenters who would rather do anything but go out and break a sweat.

For HN's that want to get active, I cannot suggest getting a (higher tier) Garmin watch enough. I know you have the money so just drop the $800.

It's stats on stats on stats and essentially creates a "character health" panel for your own body. Charts, metrics, real time tracking and exportable data. There are achievement badges and social connections if that's your thing too (good for you and your SO).

For me, being able to see real-time metrics and real time improvement really amped up my motivation to go out an exercise. Rewards were no longer this mysterious ethereal thing that will maybe show up sometime in the future if I keep grinding. Day by day, I could see improvement and sure enough could feel it too.