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Every map of China is wrong

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Re: Every map of China is wrong

#241

Post by AnimalMuppet »

paganel wrote: post #239
TulliusCicero wrote: post #234

Earlier quoted context omitted.

No they're not. They're being removed by police for setting up encampments on private property. You can't just start setting up tents wherever you want on private land and taking over the area. It might still be a bad idea to remove them, but if they were just doing standard protests in public areas, it'd be much less of an issue.

So you're saying the Chinese authorities were right in evacuating the Tiananmen Square, after all you cannot forcefully block public places without the proper authorization either. Like I said, let's cut the charade and look at the facts.

Absolute freedom exists nowhere.

Absolute unfreedom also exists nowhere.

Still, some places are more free than others. alephnerd made a number of comparisons of the US to China; you have refuted none of them. You merely complain that the US is not absolutely free of consequences for your actions. Well, that's true, but if that's what you're looking for, try an uninhabited island (and you may not even find it there).

Re: Every map of China is wrong

#242

Post by simonmysun »

Recently I noticed that in Google Maps the coordinates is somehow deobfuscated when I am back in China. That means, you'll see the map differently when you are inside China, though without a VPN Google Maps is not accessible.

It is not accurate. Straight lines become curvy at a 5 to 10 meter scale. This is obvious when you look at airport runways.

I haven't figured out what exactly leads to the different treatment from Google. I had too few opportunities to test it out. When I arrive at Germany it immediately shows wrong map of China. Another observation is that all the user-uploaded photos on Google Maps Community aren't accessible in China either.

Re: Every map of China is wrong

#243

Post by chefkd »

sumedh wrote: post #188
_xnmw wrote: post #99

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Pretty insane for you to believe that a foreign country from afar could produce mapping data with the same degree of accuracy, detail and realtime freshness as a local provider on the ground. Of course there's military value in protecting mapping data from foreign adversaries, at the very least it adds a a time delay and some uncertainty to the data. It also probably makes it harder for some unsophisticated terrorist…

> Pretty insane for you to believe that a foreign country from afar US spy satellites can take sharp pictures which look they were taken by a drone is flying close to the ground.

Could something like the SR-71 or hot air balloons be used to make accurate maps? In my head satellites which are expensive only follow one orbital path but a plane or a balloon can cover multiple regions

Re: Every map of China is wrong

#244

Post by xster »

kstrauser wrote: post #224

> Its first two articles state why China is purposely obfuscating WGS-84 data, and in brief, they state that the law was formulated to: > 1. Promote the development of surveying and mapping in the service of national economic construction. In other words, a senior party member's brother-in-law runs a civil engineering firm that, by pure coincidence, happens to offer a surveying service. No one does regulatory capture…

Are you referring to something specific?

Re: Every map of China is wrong

#245

Post by yencabulator »

chefkd wrote: post #243
sumedh wrote: post #188

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> Pretty insane for you to believe that a foreign country from afar US spy satellites can take sharp pictures which look they were taken by a drone is flying close to the ground.

Could something like the SR-71 or hot air balloons be used to make accurate maps? In my head satellites which are expensive only follow one orbital path but a plane or a balloon can cover multiple regions

Consider a Hubble-size lens at a distance of 200-1000 km. If I did my quick math right, turning just 20 degrees moves the focus by up to 350 km on the ground. And typically orbits have a pattern of gradually shifting, so the next orbit will capture a different slice.

Reconnaissance planes were largely obsoleted by satellites when digital cameras were invented (before that, satellites physically dropped film to ground to be developed), and as Russian anti-air missiles got better. The primary use for optical reconnaissance planes these days is for up-to-the-minute coverage of rapidly developing situations, such as in war, where the next satellite flyover might not be until several hours later.

(RF & radar reconnaissance planes are very important to modern warfare.)

Re: Every map of China is wrong

#246

Post by somat »

N19PEDL2 wrote: post #12
lolc wrote: post #6

So Openstreetmap must be illegal in China! And indeed it is: https://wiki.openstreetmap.org/wiki/China Of course that doesn't stop people from mapping every bench in China https://www.openstreetmap.org/search?query=China#map=3/33.99...

It seems that even taking geotagged photos is illegal in China, indeed some camera models automatically disable geotagging when inside China: https://ogleearth.com/2012/05/why-do-panasonic-leica-fujifil...

Wouldn't this also include every single smart phone.

Re: Every map of China is wrong

#247

Post by dumpsterdiver »

_xnmw wrote: post #230
mopsi wrote: post #165

Earlier quoted context omitted.

There's no need to speculate. Even with 1960s tech and no physical access, the US military somehow managed to produce really good maps of the USSR, superior to those that were available to the public. So ironically, the intentional inaccuracy of USSR-made maps affected domestic users the most. In 2024, with satellites producing imagery in ~10 cm resolution, the most important factor determining the quality of maps is…

Sure, but there's a limited amount of information available from a satellite image. It's hard to tell what's going on inside a building, for example.

This is why I believe the policy of obfuscating strategically important sites in map data is counter productive. If you overlay the Chinese provided obfuscated mapping data over mapping data obtained by your own military apparatus, the "obfuscated" portions of the Chinese data suddenly become "highlighted".

Re: Every map of China is wrong

#248

Post by TulliusCicero »

paganel wrote: post #239
TulliusCicero wrote: post #234

Earlier quoted context omitted.

No they're not. They're being removed by police for setting up encampments on private property. You can't just start setting up tents wherever you want on private land and taking over the area. It might still be a bad idea to remove them, but if they were just doing standard protests in public areas, it'd be much less of an issue.

So you're saying the Chinese authorities were right in evacuating the Tiananmen Square, after all you cannot forcefully block public places without the proper authorization either. Like I said, let's cut the charade and look at the facts.

lol, "evacuating". Come the fuck on.

Merely arresting people and forcing them out of the square would've meant it would be a blip in history. The Tiananmen Square massacre is famous because it was a massacre. Even official figures said that hundreds of people died.

Re: Every map of China is wrong

#249

Post by mrguyorama »

gembeMx wrote: post #79
solarkraft wrote: post #49

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> some of the genius contraptions and tactics that the Russian Army has been caught using in Ukraine This may have gone past me (I mostly remember the highly non-genius tactics), do you have some examples?

I’m sure the American tax payers are sending in billions of dollars because Russia is highly non genius lol. Get your head out your ass

You should see what the russians are spending to counteract the literal crumbs of Western warfighting.

Those bradleys and Abrams were 2000 vintage lol. The ATACMS are so old they are nearly expired. 200 bradleys and 100 western tanks gave russia pause, but the US has 3000 of each, in much better condition than the 3000 rusted out hulks russia is pulling from it's storage yards.

The only saving grace for russia has been the wests absolute unwillingness to donate anything more than table scraps to defend the sovereignty of Ukraine, forcing Ukraine to make do with basically nothing, causing needless Ukrainian blood to be spilled.

Ukraine could surrender tomorrow and this war would still have been a huge geopolitical blunder by Russia.

Now if only the West could copy the Shahed and Lancet, and I don't mean whatever the fuck "switchblade" sells that has a pissant warhead that couldn't disable a tent but costs ten times as much as the lancet. I know a lot of the cost of western precision munitions is about EW resistance and "military hardening" but the US has the entirety of the airforce budget dedicated to removing point targets that prevent you from attacking whatever you want, you won't always need a hardened weapon system. The Ukrainians hit that naval headquarters in Crimea with one of their duct-taped together homebuilt drones!

Re: Every map of China is wrong

#250

Post by mrguyorama »

jampekka wrote: post #119
urbandw311er wrote: post #117

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Are you just going to ignore the fact that China has been illegally building dozens if not hundreds of military bases there in international waters and is now trying to claim that it owns this territory?

That probably makes the paranoia even more founded? Especially when their (perceived) adversary has the habit of regularly starting illegal wars.

My friend in Civ 5 had a fun habit of deploying a citadel right on his boarder with you, because citadels had an extra effect of taking every tile that surrounds them, literally stealing your territory.

He called these "Defensive citadels"

When you start claiming international waters as your own, it is not "well founded paranoia" when others start viewing that as hostile, it is simply being a jackass.

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