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Every map of China is wrong

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Re: Every map of China is wrong

#231

Post by zambal »

_xnmw wrote: post #230
mopsi wrote: post #165

Earlier quoted context omitted.

There's no need to speculate. Even with 1960s tech and no physical access, the US military somehow managed to produce really good maps of the USSR, superior to those that were available to the public. So ironically, the intentional inaccuracy of USSR-made maps affected domestic users the most. In 2024, with satellites producing imagery in ~10 cm resolution, the most important factor determining the quality of maps is…

Sure, but there's a limited amount of information available from a satellite image. It's hard to tell what's going on inside a building, for example.

The subject is the ability to make accurate up to date maps out of satellite imaginary. I fail to see how this is a counter argument against that.

Re: Every map of China is wrong

#232

Post by [deleted] »

_xnmw wrote: post #230
mopsi wrote: post #165

Earlier quoted context omitted.

There's no need to speculate. Even with 1960s tech and no physical access, the US military somehow managed to produce really good maps of the USSR, superior to those that were available to the public. So ironically, the intentional inaccuracy of USSR-made maps affected domestic users the most. In 2024, with satellites producing imagery in ~10 cm resolution, the most important factor determining the quality of maps is…

Sure, but there's a limited amount of information available from a satellite image. It's hard to tell what's going on inside a building, for example.

[deleted]

Re: Every map of China is wrong

#233

Post by paganel »

alephnerd wrote: post #197
paganel wrote: post #196

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Those "freedom indices" come from countries that are all located in the Western sphere of influence, it's like relying on the opinion of an Arsenal supporter when talking about Tottenham (and vice-versa).

I can access Xinhua without using a VPN in the US, and cannot be prosecuted for using a VPN. I cannot access BBC in China without using a VPN, and can potentially be prosecuted for either action. I can say Biden/Trump are horrible and need to rot in jail, and my comment with not be deleted by a censor. If I say "Xi dada needs to step down and Li Keiqiang should have been Premier instead, and HK was never an integral…

Students in the US are now getting their bodies hurt (not to mention the legal and career-ending consequences) by hundreds to thousands of policemen for the simple crime of protesting a genocide happening half-way around the globe, let's cut the charade, it doesn't help anyone.

Re: Every map of China is wrong

#234

Post by TulliusCicero »

paganel wrote: post #233
alephnerd wrote: post #197

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I can access Xinhua without using a VPN in the US, and cannot be prosecuted for using a VPN. I cannot access BBC in China without using a VPN, and can potentially be prosecuted for either action. I can say Biden/Trump are horrible and need to rot in jail, and my comment with not be deleted by a censor. If I say "Xi dada needs to step down and Li Keiqiang should have been Premier instead, and HK was never an integral…

Students in the US are now getting their bodies hurt (not to mention the legal and career-ending consequences) by hundreds to thousands of policemen for the simple crime of protesting a genocide happening half-way around the globe, let's cut the charade, it doesn't help anyone.

No they're not. They're being removed by police for setting up encampments on private property. You can't just start setting up tents wherever you want on private land and taking over the area.

It might still be a bad idea to remove them, but if they were just doing standard protests in public areas, it'd be much less of an issue.

Re: Every map of China is wrong

#236

Post by alephnerd »

paganel wrote: post #233
alephnerd wrote: post #197

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I can access Xinhua without using a VPN in the US, and cannot be prosecuted for using a VPN. I cannot access BBC in China without using a VPN, and can potentially be prosecuted for either action. I can say Biden/Trump are horrible and need to rot in jail, and my comment with not be deleted by a censor. If I say "Xi dada needs to step down and Li Keiqiang should have been Premier instead, and HK was never an integral…

Students in the US are now getting their bodies hurt (not to mention the legal and career-ending consequences) by hundreds to thousands of policemen for the simple crime of protesting a genocide happening half-way around the globe, let's cut the charade, it doesn't help anyone.

Yea, and what does Chinese police do to protesters? Be it the White Paper protests in Shanghai and Beijing in 2022 [0], the wave of ethnic Mongol protests in 2020-21 [1], etc.

Police will inevitably crack down on protests everywhere, yet protests continue to happen on a daily basis in the US with minimal long term ramifications.

Also, none of what you pointed out actually refutes my points above about internet censorship, and as such clearly shows an attempt at whataboutism.

P.S. Both HRW [2] and Amnesty [3] have unequivocally voiced their support for the right to protest in the US, and as such if you try to say "oh human rights organizations are a tool of the west" it's complete bullshit.

[0] - https://www.hrw.org/news/2023/01/26/china-free-white-paper-p...

[1] - https://www.amnesty.org/en/documents/asa17/3086/2020/en/

[2] - https://www.hrw.org/news/2024/04/26/us-universities-should-r...

[3] - https://www.amnestyusa.org/press-releases/amnesty-internatio...

Re: Every map of China is wrong

#237

Post by TulliusCicero »

paganel wrote: post #196
cbeach wrote: post #180

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Ironic, that socialist/communist regimes always win power on the idea of giving control and ownership of assets back to "the people" The reality, of course, is that the people end up giving control and ownership to a one-party state. The four remaining Marxist-Leninist states are China, Cuba, Laos and Vietnam ( https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_of_socialist_states#Marxi... ) In 2024, their Freedom Indices (out of 10…

Those "freedom indices" come from countries that are all located in the Western sphere of influence, it's like relying on the opinion of an Arsenal supporter when talking about Tottenham (and vice-versa).

> Freedom indices all come from free countries!

Wow, what a shocker. Next you're gonna tell me that the democracy indices people use come only from democracies.

Re: Every map of China is wrong

#238

Post by paganel »

TulliusCicero wrote: post #237
paganel wrote: post #196

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Those "freedom indices" come from countries that are all located in the Western sphere of influence, it's like relying on the opinion of an Arsenal supporter when talking about Tottenham (and vice-versa).

> Freedom indices all come from free countries! Wow, what a shocker. Next you're gonna tell me that the democracy indices people use come only from democracies.

You're equating "freedom" with "democracy", which as a far from established fact.

Re: Every map of China is wrong

#239

Post by paganel »

TulliusCicero wrote: post #234
paganel wrote: post #233

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Students in the US are now getting their bodies hurt (not to mention the legal and career-ending consequences) by hundreds to thousands of policemen for the simple crime of protesting a genocide happening half-way around the globe, let's cut the charade, it doesn't help anyone.

No they're not. They're being removed by police for setting up encampments on private property. You can't just start setting up tents wherever you want on private land and taking over the area. It might still be a bad idea to remove them, but if they were just doing standard protests in public areas, it'd be much less of an issue.

So you're saying the Chinese authorities were right in evacuating the Tiananmen Square, after all you cannot forcefully block public places without the proper authorization either. Like I said, let's cut the charade and look at the facts.
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