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Google workers fired for protesting Israeli contract file NLRB complaint

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Re: Google workers fired for protesting Israeli contract file NLRB complaint

#381

Post by faeriechangling »

gitfan86 wrote: post #361
faeriechangling wrote: post #352

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I feel "Virtue signalling" isn't really fair when they have so much skin in the game here. That's evidence of sincerity rather than disingenuousness, agree or disagree with them. Unless the definition of virtue signalling is so expansive as to be meaningless, where every act of protest which is not anonymous is virtue signalling.

The consequence of their actions is that they receive high social status from people with similar politics and Google makes zero changes to their contracts with Israel. And that was obviously going to be the result of these actions. If you want to attribute their actions to a genuine desire to help the Palestinians, that is fine.

You know, accusing others of virtue signalling can itself be a form of virtue signalling.

Re: Google workers fired for protesting Israeli contract file NLRB complaint

#382

Post by racional »

ido wrote: post #378
racional wrote: post #366

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Aside from the relatively recent immigrants from the former Soviet Union (starting from the 90s) Jews of all backgrounds speak primarily Hebrew. It sounds like you’ve never ... You must not be reading the post above yours. Because very clearly, the commenter wasn't saying that the Mizrahi don't currently speak Hebrew (some 60-70 years post-migration). Rather they were referring to loss of identity, de-facto forced as…

But the Yiddish speaking culture of Ashkenazi Jews was also erased. At the founding of Israel the ideology was "we're all Israelis now, so speak Hebrew and forget your experience in the diaspora ( https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Golah ). It was certainly harsh and from modern perspective wrong but it applied to everyone, not just Mizrahi Jews. My grandparents had their last name "Hebrew-ised" and spoke Hebrew at home r…

An excellent point + thanks for the golah/galut reference. I certainly didn't mean to imply that forced assimilation was an issue solely for the Mizrahi.

Re: Google workers fired for protesting Israeli contract file NLRB complaint

#383

Post by racional »

weatherlite wrote: post #379
racional wrote: post #356

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Israel doesn't restrict citizenship to only Jews, But its laws extend greatly preferential treatment to (certain kinds of) Jews, of course. "Jews" (or those deemed as such by certain disputed criteria) may naturalize, but with onerous requirements: demonstrating proficiency in Hebrew being one of them (that "other" indigenous language, Arabic, or other common languages of pre-1947 inhabitants such as Armenian just wo…

> In human terms, one could also look it as an attempt to restore basic dignity and liberty to these folks, more or less on par to what is provided to prospective citizens of Jewish ancestry via the Law of Return. I agree. So then I don't get the demonization against Zionism. Sometimes ethnostates make sense due to special circumstances in history and in the present.

I don't see most critiques of Zionism as "demonization", though I would agree they are sometimes misinformed and involve lousy choices of wording and phrasing.

Many of most serious (and highly informed) of these critiques come from Jewish and Israeli sources, BTW.

Re: Google workers fired for protesting Israeli contract file NLRB complaint

#384

Post by racional »

tptacek wrote: post #367
racional wrote: post #357

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Some do, but reliable percentage data on this topic seems to be hard to come by. And many Israelis (and the current extremist regime) want the exact reverse of course. And make no apologies for this fact.

That's true, regarding the fringe neo-Kahanist "Greater Israel" coalition Netanyahu assembled. But as you know, it's also true of Hamas; that's the "some" you're referring to. Issue polling is tricky, but it's likely that a majority of Israelis oppose the positions of Netayahu's coalition. (It's probably true that a majority of Gazans at this point oppose the Hamas program; it's very difficult to know, because both I…

Not to quibble, but because you like to nerd out on these things:

Maximalist land claims from the Israeli side go back much further than the Kahanist movement - specifically to the Revisionist Zionism movement founded circa 1925. Which arguably became the de-facto position of Israel after the 1967 war up to the current day (basically: "We weren't really planning to grab all this territory, but being as things somehow ended up that way we might as well keep it, because after all it's ours anyway.") And in any case was explicitly the ideology of the Herut Party, which eventually morphed into Likud.

Hamas's own position in regard to inverse claims is less clear, given the (somewhat) conflicting language in the key passage everyone cites (Paragraph 20) from the 2017 Charter. By my own reading, that paragraph is actually quite straightforward, and tilts decisively towards the "formula of national consensus" re: 1967 borders.

Then again, that was the Hamas of 7 years ago. Given their penchant for piling up civilian corpses the minute their fighters assemble on enemy territory in sufficient numbers to do so; and that "explanations" for their actions have been terse and sparse since then -- I'm not sure what they currently believe.

Re: Google workers fired for protesting Israeli contract file NLRB complaint

#385

Post by gitfan86 »

faeriechangling wrote: post #381
gitfan86 wrote: post #361

Earlier quoted context omitted.

The consequence of their actions is that they receive high social status from people with similar politics and Google makes zero changes to their contracts with Israel. And that was obviously going to be the result of these actions. If you want to attribute their actions to a genuine desire to help the Palestinians, that is fine.

You know, accusing others of virtue signalling can itself be a form of virtue signalling.

Ok, but how is that relevant to the Google employees motives?

Are you just changing the subject?

Re: Google workers fired for protesting Israeli contract file NLRB complaint

#386

Post by tptacek »

racional wrote: post #384
tptacek wrote: post #367

Earlier quoted context omitted.

That's true, regarding the fringe neo-Kahanist "Greater Israel" coalition Netanyahu assembled. But as you know, it's also true of Hamas; that's the "some" you're referring to. Issue polling is tricky, but it's likely that a majority of Israelis oppose the positions of Netayahu's coalition. (It's probably true that a majority of Gazans at this point oppose the Hamas program; it's very difficult to know, because both I…

Not to quibble, but because you like to nerd out on these things: Maximalist land claims from the Israeli side go back much further than the Kahanist movement - specifically to the Revisionist Zionism movement founded circa 1925. Which arguably became the de-facto position of Israel after the 1967 war up to the current day (basically: "We weren't really planning to grab all this territory, but being as things somehow…

Hamas is an overtly genocidal organization; their charter says it in plain language, and their deliberate massacre of civilians on October 7 ratifies it. There's no argument to have here. Say that Gazans aren't Hamas, and cannot be collectively punished for the actions of a psychotic millenarian military cult, and I'll agree wholeheartedly with you.

Re: Google workers fired for protesting Israeli contract file NLRB complaint

#387

Post by racional »

weatherlite wrote: post #379
racional wrote: post #356

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Israel doesn't restrict citizenship to only Jews, But its laws extend greatly preferential treatment to (certain kinds of) Jews, of course. "Jews" (or those deemed as such by certain disputed criteria) may naturalize, but with onerous requirements: demonstrating proficiency in Hebrew being one of them (that "other" indigenous language, Arabic, or other common languages of pre-1947 inhabitants such as Armenian just wo…

> In human terms, one could also look it as an attempt to restore basic dignity and liberty to these folks, more or less on par to what is provided to prospective citizens of Jewish ancestry via the Law of Return. I agree. So then I don't get the demonization against Zionism. Sometimes ethnostates make sense due to special circumstances in history and in the present.

Sometimes ethnostates make sense due to special circumstances in history and in the present.

Hypothetically. But when established by force on top of other people's land, not so much.

Re: Google workers fired for protesting Israeli contract file NLRB complaint

#388

Post by garbagewoman »

wtcactus wrote: post #127
garbagewoman wrote: post #126

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Why do you say that google would rather not deal with them personally?

Because they proved they are toxic. No company would like to deal with them again unless there’s something to be gained from the PR aspect.

Toxic? How so?

Re: Google workers fired for protesting Israeli contract file NLRB complaint

#389

Post by racional »

tptacek wrote: post #386
racional wrote: post #384

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Not to quibble, but because you like to nerd out on these things: Maximalist land claims from the Israeli side go back much further than the Kahanist movement - specifically to the Revisionist Zionism movement founded circa 1925. Which arguably became the de-facto position of Israel after the 1967 war up to the current day (basically: "We weren't really planning to grab all this territory, but being as things somehow…

Hamas is an overtly genocidal organization; their charter says it in plain language, and their deliberate massacre of civilians on October 7 ratifies it. There's no argument to have here. Say that Gazans aren't Hamas, and cannot be collectively punished for the actions of a psychotic millenarian military cult, and I'll agree wholeheartedly with you.

Hamas is an overtly genocidal organization; their charter says it in plain language

The 2017 Charter absolutely does not, and if you think it does you'll have to cite specific paragraphs to back up this view. In fact it specifically rejects antisemitism and goes on further to say:

Hamas rejects the persecution of any human being or the undermining of his or her rights on nationalist, religious or sectarian grounds.

Re: Google workers fired for protesting Israeli contract file NLRB complaint

#390

Post by someotherperson »

weatherlite wrote: post #380
someotherperson wrote: post #358

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I personally never said Israel is an ethnostate, but a Palestinian state is definitely not a mirror image of Zionism. It was never historically monoethnic and issues with Jews is a post-Israeli thing. Not to discount pre-Israel antisemitism or the Arab nationalism movement, but national identity was always tied to a pan-ethnicity rather than religion or bloodline. Maybe a simple example of this is Armenians (Christia…

Palestinians aren't an ethnicity then? But Jews are?

I'm a bit confused by the response, but 'Palestinian' is not an ethnicity, no. 'Jews' are an ethnoreligious group.
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