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They thought they were joining an accelerator – instead they lost their startups

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Re: They thought they were joining an accelerator – instead they lost their startups

#131

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Even worse - loans can't usually be clawed back at any time

Nearly all loans I have seen have a provision in the contract that the entire loan can be called at any time.

I've never seen this in my life!

(The exception being overdrafts in Blighty which don't have fixed repayments agreed. Even then, the bank can't act unfairly).

Where do you live where this is the commonplace? Such terms would be laughed at here.

Re: They thought they were joining an accelerator – instead they lost their startups

#132

> So she paid a $7,500 deposit and was all set to join Newchip when a founder friend told her to “never pay for introductions.” Hopefully everyone knows this here, but if you paid for an introduction it's a negative signal: just cold email. That being said, I'll make intros for only $6,500 and no warrants.

I don't really understand how these predatory businesses continue to exist. I understand some entrepreneurs are very out of the loop / far from the VC ecosystem, but even just Googling about it you will find lots of clear advice to never pay for introductions or accelerators.

It's just falling for a scam like any other really isn't it? It happens, the promises you want to believe, etc.

We can sit here and say we don't understand how people fall for Nigerian princes, attorneys for the estate of long lost cousins, and all that sort of thing, but clearly it works on some people vulnerable and wishful enough to believe it.

Re: They thought they were joining an accelerator – instead they lost their startups

#133

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Defo not the case here for consumer loans. A German bank cannot tell you to pay back a loan earlier than agreed on in the contract.

they can. if some of the circumstances that allowed you to get the loan changes. They can terminate the loan agreement and demand repayment in full immediately. https://www.finanzcheck.de/kredit/kredit-kuendigung/

I think this is pretty common in loan agreements but I would guess it's rare to have this actually exercised because usually the change in circumstances is going to be something that's going to make repayment harder (no one is cancelling the loan because you notified them that you now make way more money). Trying to collect the full loan from someone with less money is going to be tough and if they then put them on a payment plan then they didn't achieve anything.

Plus it isn't great for customer relations and poor people are great clients for a bank who knows they can hit them for more and more fees.

Re: They thought they were joining an accelerator – instead they lost their startups

#134
post #131

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Nearly all loans I have seen have a provision in the contract that the entire loan can be called at any time.

I've never seen this in my life! (The exception being overdrafts in Blighty which don't have fixed repayments agreed. Even then, the bank can't act unfairly). Where do you live where this is the commonplace? Such terms would be laughed at here.

I've lived in the EU and all over the US. I've yet to see a loan where there isn't a clause allowing them to collect the entire loan under certain conditions, or even, in some cases, for any reason. Would you loan a bunch of money to someone if you couldn't say "sorry, you lied to me and I want my money back" or "you've missed 8 payments in a row, I want the remainder now and if you don't have it, we'll go to court?"

Check your loan agreement, I'm fairly confident there are ways for them to collect the full amount immediately.

Re: They thought they were joining an accelerator – instead they lost their startups

#135

Add TechStars to the list of accelerators to be avoided at all costs. They make an investment in your company on terms they can claw back the money at any time. Most of these accelerators provide little to no value, in my experience. Unless you need to know what “product market fit” means. Hilarious.

Most VCs add zero value aside from the money. Bootstrapping is always better, if you can do it, of course. Exhibit A: Naval Ravikant, the flagship SV investor, widely regarded to as "a wise man", just released a kind of crappy messaging app that flopped. Imagine having unlimited leverage, unlimited money, unlimited reputation, a huge audience already in place and still that not being enough to put out a competent pro…

He co-founded angellist which seems to be at least a moderate success

Re: They thought they were joining an accelerator – instead they lost their startups

#136
post #131

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I've never seen this in my life! (The exception being overdrafts in Blighty which don't have fixed repayments agreed. Even then, the bank can't act unfairly). Where do you live where this is the commonplace? Such terms would be laughed at here.

I've lived in the EU and all over the US. I've yet to see a loan where there isn't a clause allowing them to collect the entire loan under certain conditions, or even, in some cases, for any reason. Would you loan a bunch of money to someone if you couldn't say "sorry, you lied to me and I want my money back" or "you've missed 8 payments in a row, I want the remainder now and if you don't have it, we'll go to court?"…

Certain conditions and any time is quite different though

Re: They thought they were joining an accelerator – instead they lost their startups

#137

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Most VCs add zero value aside from the money. Bootstrapping is always better, if you can do it, of course. Exhibit A: Naval Ravikant, the flagship SV investor, widely regarded to as "a wise man", just released a kind of crappy messaging app that flopped. Imagine having unlimited leverage, unlimited money, unlimited reputation, a huge audience already in place and still that not being enough to put out a competent pro…

Ya I do not know why people hold Naval up so high. What has he ever done?

He cofounded AngelList for one...

Re: They thought they were joining an accelerator – instead they lost their startups

#138
post #131

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I've never seen this in my life! (The exception being overdrafts in Blighty which don't have fixed repayments agreed. Even then, the bank can't act unfairly). Where do you live where this is the commonplace? Such terms would be laughed at here.

I've lived in the EU and all over the US. I've yet to see a loan where there isn't a clause allowing them to collect the entire loan under certain conditions, or even, in some cases, for any reason. Would you loan a bunch of money to someone if you couldn't say "sorry, you lied to me and I want my money back" or "you've missed 8 payments in a row, I want the remainder now and if you don't have it, we'll go to court?"…

> under certain conditions

This is very different from allowing the loan to be recalled "at any time" as you first stated.

Re: They thought they were joining an accelerator – instead they lost their startups

#139
post #127

Earlier quoted context omitted.

You don’t seem to understand basic economics. When you get on a bus and pay for your ticket, is the rest of the ride a free ride? VCs are running a business too. Most VCs fail to return the capital to their LPs. That’s right, then spend 10 years of their life working with startups and have nothing at the end. They take RISK and they try to DERISK their investment by helping the portfolio company. There’s also a LOT o…

> then spend 10 years of their life working with startups and have nothing at the end How do they avoid starving to death after the first few days?

I imagine they spend money to consume food... after which, both food and money are gone.
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