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Horizontal running inside circular walls of Moon settlements

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Re: Horizontal running inside circular walls of Moon settlements

#141

Post by heleninboodler »

scotty79 wrote: post #92
Cthulhu_ wrote: post #86

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Given that there is some gravity, putting on a weighted suit to increase their mass would also make sense, although it'd be unwieldy if it's not distributed exactly the same. Plus, getting weight into space is expensive... although probably not as expensive as building a wall of death or spin gravity structure.

Why wall of death? It's gonna be just a neat cylindrical room with vaguely paraboloid walls. Even if you stop running suddenly, dropping down from 2-3 meters in 1/6 g shouldn't be anything more than inconvenient. Weighted suit wouldn't help with the weight of your organs. They are accustomed to hanging inside you at 1g. Running on wall would provide them with that.

> Why wall of death?

I think that's just what the cylindrical room is often called when it's used for motorcycles. The paper repeatedly references it, abbreviated "WoD." I don't think there's any death involved. :)

Re: Horizontal running inside circular walls of Moon settlements

#142

Post by yencabulator »

persolb wrote: post #108
scotty79 wrote: post #92

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Why wall of death? It's gonna be just a neat cylindrical room with vaguely paraboloid walls. Even if you stop running suddenly, dropping down from 2-3 meters in 1/6 g shouldn't be anything more than inconvenient. Weighted suit wouldn't help with the weight of your organs. They are accustomed to hanging inside you at 1g. Running on wall would provide them with that.

I was going to say “I’d be surprised if organ support is a large issue to an adult. We already have long term astronauts and people who are bed ridden for a long time during recovery. I would expect an issue during development though.” Turns out there is research in this direction: https://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pmc/articles/PMC2379624/pdf/can... It seems to say that there is a long term impact on connective tissue har…

> long term astronauts and people who are bed ridden

And those people lose a lot of bone mass, muscle mass, and need physical therapy to get back to normal function in 1G. Two months of bed rest will absolutely ruin you. There's a good reason astronauts need to be fit to begin with!

6 months in space causes bone loss equivalent of 20 years of aging. Return to Earth, do physical therapy for 1 year, and you're still "10 years older" as far as bone loss goes. (https://www.sciencenews.org/article/space-bone-loss-density-...).

Generally, as far as I know, bone growth is triggered by impacts (think running etc), and is hard to stimulate with just muscle exercises.

Re: Horizontal running inside circular walls of Moon settlements

#143

Post by scotty79 »

yencabulator wrote: post #142
persolb wrote: post #108

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I was going to say “I’d be surprised if organ support is a large issue to an adult. We already have long term astronauts and people who are bed ridden for a long time during recovery. I would expect an issue during development though.” Turns out there is research in this direction: https://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pmc/articles/PMC2379624/pdf/can... It seems to say that there is a long term impact on connective tissue har…

> long term astronauts and people who are bed ridden And those people lose a lot of bone mass, muscle mass, and need physical therapy to get back to normal function in 1G. Two months of bed rest will absolutely ruin you. There's a good reason astronauts need to be fit to begin with! 6 months in space causes bone loss equivalent of 20 years of aging. Return to Earth, do physical therapy for 1 year, and you're still "1…

> Generally, as far as I know, bone growth is triggered by impacts (think running etc), and is hard to stimulate with just muscle exercises.

Maybe they should do jumping while being pulled "down" by rubber bands.

Re: Horizontal running inside circular walls of Moon settlements

#144

Post by yencabulator »

scotty79 wrote: post #143
yencabulator wrote: post #142

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> long term astronauts and people who are bed ridden And those people lose a lot of bone mass, muscle mass, and need physical therapy to get back to normal function in 1G. Two months of bed rest will absolutely ruin you. There's a good reason astronauts need to be fit to begin with! 6 months in space causes bone loss equivalent of 20 years of aging. Return to Earth, do physical therapy for 1 year, and you're still "1…

> Generally, as far as I know, bone growth is triggered by impacts (think running etc), and is hard to stimulate with just muscle exercises. Maybe they should do jumping while being pulled "down" by rubber bands.

The current microgravity solution is a treadmill for running that rubber bands pull you down to.

Re: Horizontal running inside circular walls of Moon settlements

#145

Post by abecedarius »

morebortplates wrote: post #121
rokkitmensch wrote: post #37

Skateboarding on the moon is going to /killllll/.

Swimming would be a pretty interesting experience as well. You probably could even walk on water. https://what-if.xkcd.com/124/

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/The_Menace_from_Earth

I'm not sure how realistic the muscle-powered flight is, but a different form has been done on Earth.

Re: Horizontal running inside circular walls of Moon settlements

#146

Post by abecedarius »

jiri wrote: post #79
n1b0m wrote: post #74

Is this the same concept as the running scene in the film 2001: A Space Odyssey?

Actually no. In the movie, there is already gravity present in the hub - generated by rotating this large cylindrical hub. Running in such hub would increase gravity slightly but no running is needed at all! Just being in such hub is comparable to running in cylinder mentioned in the paper. Running in small (10m) diameter cylinder increase gravity significantly without need to spin the cylinder. Anyway to minimize ef…

Are you thinking of the space station? The running scene was in the interplanetary ship, with a 12m diameter cylinder spinning just enough for moon-level gravity. https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Discovery_One

Re: Horizontal running inside circular walls of Moon settlements

#147

Post by jjk166 »

yjftsjthsd-h wrote: post #140
jillesvangurp wrote: post #73

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Wild idea: build one on earth to simulate 1.1G (or higher; whatever would still be comfortable) and put gyms, hotels, swimming pool, living quarters, etc. in it. Being in it for extended periods of time would build up muscles and bones. That would likely be something that fitness people and professional athletes would be interested in. And it's a good dry run for building and operating these things on Mars and the Mo…

> build one on earth to simulate 1.1G (or higher; whatever would still be comfortable) and put gyms, hotels, swimming pool, living quarters, etc. in it. Being in it for extended periods of time would build up muscles and bones. Is that any better than ankle weights? Or wrist, I suppose.

The difference between weights on your body and higher gravity field is that with higher gravity all of you feels the force equally at the same time, so you're not putting excessive strain on certain parts of your body while neglecting others (such as internal structures).

Re: Horizontal running inside circular walls of Moon settlements

#148

Post by alex-korr »

scotty79 wrote: post #115
ordu wrote: post #94

Earlier quoted context omitted.

But one leg will still be running a shorter distance then the other.

Person running would need to constantly turn a bit to one side to not climb further up the wall. So it shouldn't be much different from running in circles on flat surface. Not sure if runners that train by running in small circles are concerned about evenness and try to run the same amount clockwise and counter clockwise to even things out.

Yes for sure. Track running can result in injuries on the left side usually in the foot/ankle area.

Re: Horizontal running inside circular walls of Moon settlements

#149

Post by Nevermark »

vintermann wrote: post #97
jillesvangurp wrote: post #73

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Wild idea: build one on earth to simulate 1.1G (or higher; whatever would still be comfortable) and put gyms, hotels, swimming pool, living quarters, etc. in it. Being in it for extended periods of time would build up muscles and bones. That would likely be something that fitness people and professional athletes would be interested in. And it's a good dry run for building and operating these things on Mars and the Mo…

Spinning stuff in air takes more energy than spinning stuff in a vacuum.

If the track is enclosed in a smooth symmetric enclosure, either a circle or flat dome, the air within the enclosure will spin along with the train or other tracked constructions, instead of impeding them.

I imagine some texturing on the inside of the enclosure could create small scale surface turbulence that even reduces the minimal friction there.

Re: Horizontal running inside circular walls of Moon settlements

#150

Post by Nevermark »

scoopr wrote: post #110
amstan wrote: post #77

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Why did nobody do this yet? It would totally be a great prototype for stuff in orbit.

I just keep thinking about this short film[0] that explores the views you can see with rotational artificial gravity, and how nauseating it could be :) [0] https://vimeo.com/869858712 also available as https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=iiPmgW21rwY

Just point the axis at the major body of interest, Earth, moon, Jupiter, etc., and it would slowly rotate in a stationary position, instead of spinning around you.

Or align the axis with the major light source if that is different, like the sun for inner solar system locations, and at least the lighting won't keep moving around.

Not much different from watching scenery go by in a vehicle then.

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