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Every map of China is wrong

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Re: Every map of China is wrong

#31

Post by remram »

eru wrote: post #27
nimbius wrote: post #23

Earlier quoted context omitted.

[flagged]

At some point it was illegal in NYC to go out with a with a mask on, while it was also made illegal to go out without a mask on. (That was when they were both protests that made them ban masks (that obscure the face), and Covid that made them mandate masks. But I think the laws were written broadly enough that both covering and not covering your face were technically forbidden.)

Do you have any reference for that? I live in NYC and was here for the whole pandemic, and this is the first I hear something like that.

Re: Every map of China is wrong

#32

Post by dclowd9901 »

Man the author did not have to resort to such a click baity title to get people to read.

“Why Google Maps can’t map China” would have been accurate and not droll.

I just opened Apple Maps and it looks perfectly fine. Tested about 10 areas and even rural areas and there was no issue. Stopped reading immediately after. I have no interest in supporting this crap.

Re: Every map of China is wrong

#33

Post by AnimalMuppet »

criley2 wrote: post #28
nimbius wrote: post #23

Earlier quoted context omitted.

[flagged]

For the record: it is legal to photograph police in all of the US, and is a protected 1st amendment right. Some states or localities might try to outlaw it, but they always lose when challenged. Some police may simply ignore the law and punish you for exercising your rights, but that's different than it being illegal. With regards to photography on US railroad tracks, there is no law against it. However, railroad tra…

This. Some over-aggressive transit police will try to keep you from photographing their trains, but if you're not on their property, they can get over themselves.

I've had transit police notice that I was watching trains, and come over to see what I was doing. I told them that I was watching trains. I was in a place that had a clear view of their platform, and they didn't like me hanging out there and watching. They said they'd like me to watch trains somewhere else. I told them that I was on private property, and it wasn't their private property, so I didn't care what they'd like. (I did have permission from the property owner.) The transit cops didn't say anything more, they just looked rather startled..

Now, if a cop with jurisdiction tells you to leave, you may ask him to cite a statute, but in the end, if they insist on you leaving, you probably need to obey, even if they're wrong. But as you say, they are wrong - it's not illegal to watch railroad tracks from public property, and it's not illegal to photograph.

Re: Every map of China is wrong

#34

Post by toss1 »

Reason077 wrote: post #21
lolc wrote: post #6

So Openstreetmap must be illegal in China! And indeed it is: https://wiki.openstreetmap.org/wiki/China Of course that doesn't stop people from mapping every bench in China https://www.openstreetmap.org/search?query=China#map=3/33.99...

Indeed, despite its apparent illegality, China seems to be fairly well-supported and well-mapped by OpenStreetMap, at least in major cities. And is entirely mapped in normal WGS-84 without the obfuscation problem. In any case, according to Wikipedia, open-source code is available to convert between WGS-84 and the obfuscated GJC-02 coordinates. Since technology seems to have caught up with it, is there any advantage (…

Great point. This seems like low-intelligence autocratic bullshirt more than anything.

Does the CCP really think that the US military are going to use ordinary street msps to target their missiles and that this obfuscation will protect them from on-target hits? Sure, in WWII there were a few apocryphal instances of bad maps foiling an attack, but that was decades before mapping satellites.

As mentioned, it's been a long time since the US stopped limiting GPS resolution. This just makes CCP seem backward.

Re: Every map of China is wrong

#35

Post by Intralexical »

javajosh wrote: post #30
Intralexical wrote: post #18

Earlier quoted context omitted.

The consequences for them seem a bit more urgent, though, given Seoul lying in artillery range of the DMZ.

Yes, I'm sure obfuscating Google Street maps will prevent DPR artillery from accurately striking targets in Seoul.

Given some of the genius contraptions and tactics that the Russian Army has been caught using in Ukraine, I wouldn't be surprised if it actually did.

Also, infosec isn't binary. Obfuscating Google Maps might not prevent the DPRK from doing terrible things to Seoul, but not obfuscating it would probably make it easier for them to do so.

Re: Every map of China is wrong

#36

Post by motoboi »

Anyone does know if that affects US capabilities do drop a bomb on relevant targets or it's just a comercial capability, like doordash not being able to route streets without a local partner?

Re: Every map of China is wrong

#37

Post by SllX »

toss1 wrote: post #34
Reason077 wrote: post #21

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Indeed, despite its apparent illegality, China seems to be fairly well-supported and well-mapped by OpenStreetMap, at least in major cities. And is entirely mapped in normal WGS-84 without the obfuscation problem. In any case, according to Wikipedia, open-source code is available to convert between WGS-84 and the obfuscated GJC-02 coordinates. Since technology seems to have caught up with it, is there any advantage (…

Great point. This seems like low-intelligence autocratic bullshirt more than anything. Does the CCP really think that the US military are going to use ordinary street msps to target their missiles and that this obfuscation will protect them from on-target hits? Sure, in WWII there were a few apocryphal instances of bad maps foiling an attack, but that was decades before mapping satellites. As mentioned, it's been a l…

Not going to defend it, but I’ve always read it as an attempted countermeasure to unsophisticated espionage or domestic terrorism rather than an addition to their missile defense system. It’s not good enough to obfuscate targets when you can literally see and guide missiles from above their airspace, but it might trip up people operating on the street on their own or in small cells. America isn’t the PRC’s only adversary, and authoritarian dictatorships thrive only so far as they can control information and the movements of their subjects.

Re: Every map of China is wrong

#38

Post by wbl »

SllX wrote: post #37
toss1 wrote: post #34

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Great point. This seems like low-intelligence autocratic bullshirt more than anything. Does the CCP really think that the US military are going to use ordinary street msps to target their missiles and that this obfuscation will protect them from on-target hits? Sure, in WWII there were a few apocryphal instances of bad maps foiling an attack, but that was decades before mapping satellites. As mentioned, it's been a l…

Not going to defend it, but I’ve always read it as an attempted countermeasure to unsophisticated espionage or domestic terrorism rather than an addition to their missile defense system. It’s not good enough to obfuscate targets when you can literally see and guide missiles from above their airspace, but it might trip up people operating on the street on their own or in small cells. America isn’t the PRC’s only adver…

On the street relative addresses and way markers are enough. Think about the pre smartphone direction days.

Re: Every map of China is wrong

#39

Post by xk3 »

motoboi wrote: post #36

Anyone does know if that affects US capabilities do drop a bomb on relevant targets or it's just a comercial capability, like doordash not being able to route streets without a local partner?

It has no military capability impact. The situation is similar to South Korea's map.

Re: Every map of China is wrong

#40

Post by SllX »

wbl wrote: post #38
SllX wrote: post #37

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Not going to defend it, but I’ve always read it as an attempted countermeasure to unsophisticated espionage or domestic terrorism rather than an addition to their missile defense system. It’s not good enough to obfuscate targets when you can literally see and guide missiles from above their airspace, but it might trip up people operating on the street on their own or in small cells. America isn’t the PRC’s only adver…

On the street relative addresses and way markers are enough. Think about the pre smartphone direction days.

Yeah. Like I said, not defending it, but it seems more plausible than trying to trip up foreign missile targeting by making Google Maps worse.
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