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Microsoft Pulling Free Development Tools for Windows 8 Desktop Apps

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Re: Microsoft Pulling Free Development Tools for Windows 8 Desktop Apps

#51

Post by bad_user »

gurkendoktor wrote: post #30
cageface wrote: post #2

Although I think HTML5 is actually a pretty lousy software stack for application development, I'm becoming more and more sympathetic to the arguments that the evolution of the web is absolutely essential for the survival of free & open computing. It was bad enough that their mobile platforms are so locked down, but with Apple and Microsoft now turning the screws ever tighter on their previously open desktop platforms…

> the evolution of the web is absolutely essential for the survival of free & open computing. I don't understand the connection. How many of the web services we use are open source? A native program I buy may be closed source, but it runs on my computer and storage and is updated on my terms. I can even legally crack it if that's what it takes to keep it running (as far as I understand German laws). If I use an open-…

Openess has many layers - this is about Microsoft dictating to developers what they can and cannot do on their platform.

On the web everybody is welcome. If you don't like any of Google's services, you can create your own clone, and people can use it by just entering an URL in a browser.

Now imagine for a second how 2012 would look like if Microsoft banned Firefox because it "duplicates existing functionality" or other such invented guideline for the good of their app store ... because that's the direction Microsoft and Apple are taking us. And btw, just so you know, Firefox or Chrome cannot run on top of Metro.

Re: Microsoft Pulling Free Development Tools for Windows 8 Desktop Apps

#52

Post by bad_user »

EtienneK wrote: post #29

Not great news for XNA hobbyists like myself. Oh well, I guess I'll just move to Java to create some games. It worked for Notch :)

Java is great for hobbyists. Checkout: http://jmonkeyengine.com/

Also, checkout MonoGame: http://monogame.codeplex.com/

Re: Microsoft Pulling Free Development Tools for Windows 8 Desktop Apps

#53

Post by onedev »

bad_user wrote: post #50
jasonkester wrote: post #27

This doesn't really seem like news to me. I've never met anybody doing real development in the .NET world who didn't have a paid copy of VS.NET. With BizSpark or similar, you're looking at something like $400 total to get as many copies of VS.NET as you need for your entire team. And all the other dev tools everybody needs. And Windows licenses for all their boxes. And Office. And everything else Microsoft makes. So…

still closer to free than it is to a day's worth of your bill rate That's a really fucked up definition of "free", which gets repeated often by Windows developers, but it isn't anything more than a delusion. And btw, remember that not all of us live on Silicon Valley's fat salaries ;-)

Some of us are also budding students who like experimenting with different things and price is most likely a barrier to entry (it sure it for me).

Re: Microsoft Pulling Free Development Tools for Windows 8 Desktop Apps

#56

Post by dav-id »

onedev wrote: post #53
bad_user wrote: post #50

Earlier quoted context omitted.

still closer to free than it is to a day's worth of your bill rate That's a really fucked up definition of "free", which gets repeated often by Windows developers, but it isn't anything more than a delusion. And btw, remember that not all of us live on Silicon Valley's fat salaries ;-)

Some of us are also budding students who like experimenting with different things and price is most likely a barrier to entry (it sure it for me).

Students can get VS and other MS software for free through various programs such as MSDNAA

Re: Microsoft Pulling Free Development Tools for Windows 8 Desktop Apps

#57

Post by jiggy2011 »

cageface wrote: post #2

Although I think HTML5 is actually a pretty lousy software stack for application development, I'm becoming more and more sympathetic to the arguments that the evolution of the web is absolutely essential for the survival of free & open computing. It was bad enough that their mobile platforms are so locked down, but with Apple and Microsoft now turning the screws ever tighter on their previously open desktop platforms…

Will the web be the most "open" platform in the long run though?

What happens if services like amazon AWS put smaller hosts out of business and services like facebook become so ubiquitous that they are considered the "gateway" to the web and most web services are built on top of these APIs?

Re: Microsoft Pulling Free Development Tools for Windows 8 Desktop Apps

#58

Post by justincormack »

jmathai wrote: post #9
cageface wrote: post #2

Although I think HTML5 is actually a pretty lousy software stack for application development, I'm becoming more and more sympathetic to the arguments that the evolution of the web is absolutely essential for the survival of free & open computing. It was bad enough that their mobile platforms are so locked down, but with Apple and Microsoft now turning the screws ever tighter on their previously open desktop platforms…

Agreed. It's unfortunate. I'm not an open source or freedom zealot but good gawd the open web is what gave birth to all the awesomeness we have. Take away "open" and we'll end up with a bunch of software on all of our mobile phones that's the equivalent of IE6 in 2012.

No, Unix gave us that awesomeness. including giving us the open web.

Re: Microsoft Pulling Free Development Tools for Windows 8 Desktop Apps

#59

Post by 16s »

cageface wrote: post #2

Although I think HTML5 is actually a pretty lousy software stack for application development, I'm becoming more and more sympathetic to the arguments that the evolution of the web is absolutely essential for the survival of free & open computing. It was bad enough that their mobile platforms are so locked down, but with Apple and Microsoft now turning the screws ever tighter on their previously open desktop platforms…

I'm coming to hold this view as well. A much as I dislike web development in general, I plan to do more work there to hedge against this. I like for my software to run anywhere I need it and a web browser seems to be the only place it'll run without vendor interference, but I wonder when they may start attacking browsers?

Re: Microsoft Pulling Free Development Tools for Windows 8 Desktop Apps

#60

Post by cycojesus »

dav-id wrote: post #56
onedev wrote: post #53

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Some of us are also budding students who like experimenting with different things and price is most likely a barrier to entry (it sure it for me).

Students can get VS and other MS software for free through various programs such as MSDNAA

Some of us (neither students nor fat salary receiving end) are struggling to make ends meet and try their hand at app development as a way out of struggle.
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