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Run0, a systemd based alternative to sudo, announced

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Re: Run0, a systemd based alternative to sudo, announced

#521

Post by fsckboy »

Arnavion wrote: post #261
kevincox wrote: post #150

> One could say, "run0" is closer to behaviour of "ssh" than to "sudo", in many ways. This is an interesting offhand comment. You could implement a very similar tool by SSHing to localhost.

Technically `sudo -u` can switch to any user on the system while only a limited few would be allowed as ssh targets. Even root might not be allowed as an ssh target if `PermitRootLogin` is set to `no`, which I do on all my systems.

>Even root might not be allowed as an ssh target if `PermitRootLogin` is set to `no`, which I do on all my systems.

would something like PermitRootLogin=localhost punch an enormous hole in your intricate opsec?

Re: Run0, a systemd based alternative to sudo, announced

#522

Post by jimbosis »

flaptrap wrote: post #470
yoyohello13 wrote: post #441

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Gnome is great if you're willing to do things their way. I Like Gnome a lot actually.

Gnome's UI peaked at 2.32. Find out how the users operate and implement so users can work efficiently. Don't make changes just to make your mark or to make users work on the desktop like they see on a cell phone. That is so basic.

I don't know if you are DE shopping, but I've been very happy for the past few years with the MATE Desktop Environment, which "...is the continuation of GNOME 2. It provides an intuitive and attractive desktop environment using traditional metaphors for Linux and other Unix-like operating systems."

https://mate-desktop.org/

Among a great number of things I really like, I will mention that Caja, the MATE version of GNOME 2's Nautilus file manager, can still be switched to spatial mode.

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Spatial_file_manager

Generally speaking, I too really liked GNOME 2.32 and its predecessors, and, as far as I'm concerned, MATE is as it describes itself.

EDIT: Wording mistake.

Re: Run0, a systemd based alternative to sudo, announced

#523

Post by SoftTalker »

agilob wrote: post #230
kbar13 wrote: post #45

systemd has been a net positive for the linux ecosystem. remember when you had to write bash scripts to start, stop, restart services and handle any other signals you want to send it? nowadays it's a unit file (basically just an ini file) away with relatively straightforward API. and you can actually declare startup dependencies and other useful relationships past just "prepend a number signifying when it should run…

> remember when you had to write bash scripts to start, stop, restart services This was a really big pain, yes, but I also remember how I could `tail -f *.logs`. I remember how I didn't need to remember about `--no-pager` and `--follow`. I knew where the files were, what they were called. I remember how I didn't have to google how to find logs between 10 days ago and 4 days ago, because the logs would be in a .tar cr…

Those old init scripts were pretty boilerplate and not that hard to write. And in the case of OpenBSD (and maybe other BSDs?) the scripts for /etc/rc.d are usually just a few lines.

With the traditional init system I knew what was going on, and if I didn't, find and grep were your friends. With systemd I'm googling everything every time. The systemctl man page is over 1,100 lines. OpenBSD's rcctl man page is 119 lines.

I'm sure there are use cases for systemd but for running a server that provides a single or a handful of services, it seems like complete overkill.

Re: Run0, a systemd based alternative to sudo, announced

#524

Post by SoftTalker »

lolinder wrote: post #249
agilob wrote: post #230

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> remember when you had to write bash scripts to start, stop, restart services This was a really big pain, yes, but I also remember how I could `tail -f *.logs`. I remember how I didn't need to remember about `--no-pager` and `--follow`. I knew where the files were, what they were called. I remember how I didn't have to google how to find logs between 10 days ago and 4 days ago, because the logs would be in a .tar cr…

> I could `tail -f *.logs`. I remember how I didn't need to remember about `--no-pager` and `--follow`. journalctl supports -f, which by your own account you were already using for tail, so I'm not clear what's worse there. > I remember how I didn't have to google how to find logs between 10 days ago and 4 days ago, because the logs would be in a .tar created by logrotate with a date in the filename. My memory of thi…

Not my memory at all. In almost all cases the logs were in /var/log and written by syslog. Unless the whole service was in a chroot directory, or the program was written by an amateur who didn't follow logging conventions.

Re: Run0, a systemd based alternative to sudo, announced

#525

Post by birdiesanders »

whimsicalism wrote: post #458
mbreese wrote: post #413

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Multi-user clusters are still quite common in HPC. And I think you're not going to see a switch away from multi-user systems anytime soon. Single user systems like laptops might be a good use-case, but even the laptop I'm using now has different accounts for me and my wife (and it's a Mac). When you have one OS that is used on devices from phones, to laptops, to servers, to HPC clusters, you're going to have this fri…

is it? most HPC (if GPU clusters count) are probably in industry and managed by containers

Containers rely on many privilege separation systems to do what they do, they are in fact a rather extreme case of multi-user systems, but they tend to present as “single” user environs to the container’s processes.

Re: Run0, a systemd based alternative to sudo, announced

#527

Post by whalesalad »

fn-mote wrote: post #152

Overall, this seems great. However... > [...] by default it will tint your terminal background in a reddish tone while you are operating with elevated privileges ?!! ouch ... seems orthogonal to the actual important parts. Disclaimer: I didn't try it.

This is a thing in certain environments. I don’t mind it.

Re: Run0, a systemd based alternative to sudo, announced

#528

Post by lanstin »

TachyonicBytes wrote: post #460
kevincox wrote: post #150

> One could say, "run0" is closer to behaviour of "ssh" than to "sudo", in many ways. This is an interesting offhand comment. You could implement a very similar tool by SSHing to localhost.

It's the usual way to make changes to a privileged file in Emacs; ssh to localhost with root.

I like to have one of my tmux windows be a sudo session with emacs running as root and mostly used to run emerge world or apt update etc. also a window tailing all the logs. I haven’t been on a machine where more than one admin was logged in at the same time in quite some time.

Re: Run0, a systemd based alternative to sudo, announced

#529

Post by loeg »

flaptrap wrote: post #470
yoyohello13 wrote: post #441

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Gnome is great if you're willing to do things their way. I Like Gnome a lot actually.

Gnome's UI peaked at 2.32. Find out how the users operate and implement so users can work efficiently. Don't make changes just to make your mark or to make users work on the desktop like they see on a cell phone. That is so basic.

These days KDE gets a lot of the same things right that GNOME 2 did.

Re: Run0, a systemd based alternative to sudo, announced

#530

Post by Zuiii »

CamouflagedKiwi wrote: post #183
phone8675309 wrote: post #180

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Until systemd consumes the kernel and then it will be GNU/systemd

Or it consumes every other part of the GNU runtime and it becomes systemd/linux

At it's growth rate, it'll be just systemd. I'm only half joking unfortunately.
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