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Run0, a systemd based alternative to sudo, announced

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Re: Run0, a systemd based alternative to sudo, announced

#411

Post by JoshTriplett »

vpzom wrote: post #379
suprjami wrote: post #375

Earlier quoted context omitted.

So, you don't like a component because you ran software which requires that component, and you intentionally ran it in an environment without that component. That does not make sense to me?

The popularity of systemd encourages people to require it, which is the major problem that said iirc udev was formerly separate and active forks still exist

> The popularity of systemd encourages people to require it, which is the major problem

The usefulness of systemd encourages people to require it. Projects most often require it in cases where either there isn't an alternative, the alternative isn't maintained, or the alternative is missing functionality.

Re: Run0, a systemd based alternative to sudo, announced

#412

Post by lupusreal »

deadbunny wrote: post #404
Xeamek wrote: post #356

2 weeks ago I didn't understood the systemd hate. But I tried to run udev-requiring program on non-systemd based distro. And now I don't like systemd anymore.

I tried filling up a Tesla at a gas station. And now I don't like electric cars anymore.

You joke but the inability of BEVs to make use of the gas station infrastructure is probably their number one obstacle to mass adoption.

Re: Run0, a systemd based alternative to sudo, announced

#413

Post by mbreese »

shrimp_emoji wrote: post #388
mbreese wrote: post #384

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> across unix multiuser environments getting used anymore for servers I guess it depends on the servers. I'm in academic/research computing and single-user systems are the anomaly. Part of it is having access to beefier systems for smaller slices of time, but most of it is being able to share data and collaboration between users. If you're only used to cloud VMs that are setup for a single user or service, I guess yo…

> If you're only used to cloud VMs that are setup for a single user or service, I guess your views would be different. This is overwhelmingly the view for business and personal users. Settings like what you described are very rare nowadays. No corporate IT department is timesharing users on a mainframe. It's just baremetal laptops or VMs on Windows with networked mountpoints.

Multi-user clusters are still quite common in HPC. And I think you're not going to see a switch away from multi-user systems anytime soon. Single user systems like laptops might be a good use-case, but even the laptop I'm using now has different accounts for me and my wife (and it's a Mac).

When you have one OS that is used on devices from phones, to laptops, to servers, to HPC clusters, you're going to have this friction. Could Linux operate in a single-user mode? Of course. But does that really make sense for the other use-cases?

Re: Run0, a systemd based alternative to sudo, announced

#414

Post by anthk »

smegger001 wrote: post #352
anthk wrote: post #226

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Guix will reimplement POSIX utils and extras with tools written in Gule.

Please say this is a joke

https://nlnet.nl/project/Gash/

It wouldn't be a bad idea. Also, Guile's JIT could be interesting there.

Also, a shell with a live REPL instead of failing on errors can be pretty interesting.

Re: Run0, a systemd based alternative to sudo, announced

#415

Post by chgs »

mbivert wrote: post #350
airocker wrote: post #310

I have seldom come across unix multiuser environments getting used anymore for servers. Its generally just one user on one physical machine now a days. I understand run0's promise is still useful but i would really like to see the whole unix permission system simplified for just one user who has sudo access.

I've never understood the need for sudo(1) on single-user, physical machines: I keep a root shell (su(1)) around for admin tasks, and it's always been sufficient.

Everything I run with sudo is logged so I know how I messed up.

Nothing worse than ansible with its “sudo /tmp/whatever.sh” which hides what it’s doing.

Re: Run0, a systemd based alternative to sudo, announced

#416

Post by foresto »

quectophoton wrote: post #363
ezoe wrote: post #121

I wonder what other existing programs Will Systemd attempt to replace in the future. My bet is /bin/sh, maybe they went further to replace the entire POSIX utilities.

filesystemd, replacing ext4/btrfs/etc. It will come with `filectl` for all your file operations, so you will no longer need `cd`, `pwd`, `touch`, `rm`, `mkdir`, `cat`, `grep`, `find`, etc. Instead you do everything through `filectl` commands. This will deprecate many commands from GNU coreutils, which is a good thing because replacing things is always good. Then, since programs are just files, and filesystem will be…

> instead of `cargo build` you'll need to use `filectl exec -u cargo build`

You joke, but I already have to do this with lxc commands, and the systemd-compatible version of those commands is even longer than you imagined. See my other comment for details.

Re: Run0, a systemd based alternative to sudo, announced

#417

Post by dumpsterdiver »

sunshowers wrote: post #338
agilob wrote: post #230

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> remember when you had to write bash scripts to start, stop, restart services This was a really big pain, yes, but I also remember how I could `tail -f *.logs`. I remember how I didn't need to remember about `--no-pager` and `--follow`. I knew where the files were, what they were called. I remember how I didn't have to google how to find logs between 10 days ago and 4 days ago, because the logs would be in a .tar cr…

I've recently become a fan of the `-x` flag to journalctl, which adds additional context to log entries and even suggests remediations at times. I've identified and fixed several issues on my Linux systems that way. Kind of hard to get that with tail -f!

My goto is journalctl -xf. Best of both worlds :)

Re: Run0, a systemd based alternative to sudo, announced

#419

Post by shiomiru »

lupire wrote: post #199
withinboredom wrote: post #188

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I can think of a number of things this tinting would break.

Can you name any?

If the program you're running prints red text, then you get red bgcolor with red fgcolor. Good luck reading that.

(Also, users with the wrong color scheme get that experience by default. Though that is a niche use case enough that I'd be surprised if systemd devs cared about it.)

Re: Run0, a systemd based alternative to sudo, announced

#420

Post by kasabali »

byteknight wrote: post #220
wkat4242 wrote: post #7

Earlier quoted context omitted.

[flagged]

I really think you need some time away from a PC. You seem to be taking this incredibly personally. You can feel how you feel about the general public, but knowingly and willfully staying in a bubble is only detrimental to yourself. You will ultimately become what you hate. A person unwilling to move with the current change of society.

That's rude. You're not his therapist.
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