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Run0, a systemd based alternative to sudo, announced

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Re: Run0, a systemd based alternative to sudo, announced

#181

Post by superkuh »

sophacles wrote: post #177
superkuh wrote: post #167

Earlier quoted context omitted.

The implicit premise of this comment is that linux is broken and needs to be changed. It isn't. The changes are not inherently good. Development is not inherently good. Just look at Gtk3 from 2014 to 2024. It was far more functional in 2014 (re: keyboard input) and now that has been removed because "progress".

No one is stopping you from running a 2014 version of your favorite distro. Seems like a good way to address your concerns.

Indeed. I have been using Ubuntu 14.04 under ESM for the last 10 years. But that ESM support is ending in 2024. I've tried modern distros using modern Gtk3 and they're lousy with file chooser bugs. I've tried patching Gtk3 gtkfilechooserwidget.c myself but I can only fix it for the first file->open dialog, not subsequent ones. Attempts to get help in #Gtk over the last 5 years have been rebuffed in IRC and ignored/closed repeatedly on the issue trackers: https://gitlab.gnome.org/GNOME/gtk/-/issues/5872

Re: Run0, a systemd based alternative to sudo, announced

#182

Post by [deleted] »

kbar13 wrote: post #45

systemd has been a net positive for the linux ecosystem. remember when you had to write bash scripts to start, stop, restart services and handle any other signals you want to send it? nowadays it's a unit file (basically just an ini file) away with relatively straightforward API. and you can actually declare startup dependencies and other useful relationships past just "prepend a number signifying when it should run…

[deleted]

Re: Run0, a systemd based alternative to sudo, announced

#183

Post by CamouflagedKiwi »

phone8675309 wrote: post #180
StayTrue wrote: post #173

Perhaps the nomenclature should be updated from GNU/Linux to GNU/systemd/Linux.

Until systemd consumes the kernel and then it will be GNU/systemd

Or it consumes every other part of the GNU runtime and it becomes systemd/linux

Re: Run0, a systemd based alternative to sudo, announced

#185

Post by ongy »

segasaturn wrote: post #168

I asked this in a thread about this from last night and didn't get a reply. For context, the way "run0" works is to apparently send a signal to polkit that requests a command under the root user's ID and permissions, thereby getting a privileged shell without SUID: > How hard would it be to create a program to send a signal to polkit "impersonating" run0 and obtain a root shell without entering a password? Anybody kn…

Without looking at the he specific implementation

There should be a service running as uid=0 that exposes an unprivileged API.

This service then takes the RPC and does authorization with polkit.

I.e. the unprivileged part doesn't talk to polkit directly. But a privileged part uses polkit instead of a custom sudoers style config.

Re: Run0, a systemd based alternative to sudo, announced

#187

Post by superkuh »

throwaway11460 wrote: post #172
superkuh wrote: post #167

Earlier quoted context omitted.

The implicit premise of this comment is that linux is broken and needs to be changed. It isn't. The changes are not inherently good. Development is not inherently good. Just look at Gtk3 from 2014 to 2024. It was far more functional in 2014 (re: keyboard input) and now that has been removed because "progress".

Nobody needs to adopt the changes. Everybody did because it's better than the alternatives. There are still systemd-less distros if you like it.

My issue is not with systemd. My issue is with the argument that all development is good. In this example I am pointing out how Gtk3 has suffered from development attention from GNOME over the last decade and became worse.

Maybe run0 is worse than sudo. Maybe not. I have no personal experience on that topic and I doubt anyone here does.

Re: Run0, a systemd based alternative to sudo, announced

#188

Post by withinboredom »

NekkoDroid wrote: post #166
fn-mote wrote: post #152

Overall, this seems great. However... > [...] by default it will tint your terminal background in a reddish tone while you are operating with elevated privileges ?!! ouch ... seems orthogonal to the actual important parts. Disclaimer: I didn't try it.

I tried it a bit ago (when it was still called uid0, pre-release), I also wasn't a fan of the tinting. I like the intent behind it, but some terminals already tint the header color when running sudo, I haven't tested if its done specifically for sudo or if its in a more generic way that could handle this as well.

I can think of a number of things this tinting would break.

Re: Run0, a systemd based alternative to sudo, announced

#189

Post by Arnavion »

withinboredom wrote: post #184

I don't understand the point of creating an entirely new shell inheriting almost nothing. Seems like that would cause a lot of issues (i.e., sudo make install)

That's how sudo already works on most (all?) distros. Eg Debian 12 has:

    Defaults env_reset
... which will clear almost everything that `make install` would've used. OpenSUSE TW has:

    Defaults always_set_home
    Defaults env_reset
    Defaults env_keep = "LANG LC_ADDRESS LC_CTYPE LC_COLLATE LC_IDENTIFICATION LC_MEASUREMENT LC_MESSAGES LC_MONETARY LC_NAME LC_NUMERIC LC_PAPER LC_TELEPHONE LC_TIME LC_ALL LANGUAGE LINGUAS XDG_SESSION_COOKIE"
... which is a lot more, but will still clear whatever `make install` would've used.

Anything you need to give to `make install` should be given explicitly, like `sudo make INSTALL_ROOT=$INSTALL_ROOT install` or whatever.

Re: Run0, a systemd based alternative to sudo, announced

#190

Post by NekkoDroid »

SAI_Peregrinus wrote: post #143
constantcrying wrote: post #131

Earlier quoted context omitted.

No, I think the systemd project shouldn't exist. I have no problem with someone writing a sudo replacement. Do you understand the difference?

Do you also think the GNU project shouldn't exist? If not, what's the difference?

or OpenBSD
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