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U.S. to require automatic emergency braking on new vehicles in 5 years

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Re: U.S. to require automatic emergency braking on new vehicles in 5 years

#101

Post by mulmen »

dymk wrote: post #92
foxyv wrote: post #88

There is one safety feature that would universally make cars safer and not require radar or computers. Just simple speed governors based on geo-fencing and radio speed limit signs. It would be trivially easy to install on existing vehicles and much less expensive on new vehicles. In addition it would increase pedestrian safety by leaps and bounds. We do it for electric bicycles and scooters. Why not cars?

> not require radar or computers > speed governors based on geo-fencing and radio speed limit signs sounds like that requires computers > We do it for electric bicycles and scooters I've never seen a scooter nor e-bike for sale that includes such a feature. Unless you're talking about rental scooters, which doesn't make sense to compare an owned car against.

My Class 3 ebike is governed at 28mph when pedaling or 20mph on motor alone. Above those speeds the motor just turns off. I can pedal/coast above that speed but the motor does nothing. This is a legal requirement to meet the class specification.

Re: U.S. to require automatic emergency braking on new vehicles in 5 years

#102

Post by RIMR »

dymk wrote: post #92
foxyv wrote: post #88

There is one safety feature that would universally make cars safer and not require radar or computers. Just simple speed governors based on geo-fencing and radio speed limit signs. It would be trivially easy to install on existing vehicles and much less expensive on new vehicles. In addition it would increase pedestrian safety by leaps and bounds. We do it for electric bicycles and scooters. Why not cars?

> not require radar or computers > speed governors based on geo-fencing and radio speed limit signs sounds like that requires computers > We do it for electric bicycles and scooters I've never seen a scooter nor e-bike for sale that includes such a feature. Unless you're talking about rental scooters, which doesn't make sense to compare an owned car against.

>scooter nor e-bike for sale

You're forgetting that the majority of electric scooters and bikes out there are rentals. Every single one of them has geofencing and speed governors.

Currently, if you buy your own (aka, one that is "for sale"), you can do with it what you want. I wouldn't us the same argument for a car that you own, because there is significantly greater public risk associated with misuse of an automobile.

The technology does exist though, and it is trivial to implement.

Re: U.S. to require automatic emergency braking on new vehicles in 5 years

#103

Post by Veserv »

willcipriano wrote: post #68
drawkward wrote: post #45

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Even if true, who cares, if it means fewer preventable fatalities?

"If we can save one life, it's worth it" is part of the reason everything is so expensive in the US. People forget that poverty is also deadly and don't factor that into the calculation.

The article says it will save a estimated 362 lives per year at a cost of 82$ per car or 354 M$/yr. The actuarial value of a human life is usually around 5 M$, so that is a societal ROI of 5 if we only count fatalitys.

Re: U.S. to require automatic emergency braking on new vehicles in 5 years

#104

Post by lesuorac »

acdha wrote: post #18
lm28469 wrote: post #15

Earlier quoted context omitted.

https://www.nytimes.com/2022/11/27/upshot/road-deaths-pedest... I can't link the graph directly because it doesn't display the text, ctrl-f "Change in U.S. road deaths since 1994" to see it

I’d also add https://www.ghsa.org/resources/news-releases/pedestrians-pre... > A combination of factors creates this deadly situation for people walking on U.S. roadways. A steep drop in traffic enforcement across the country since 2020 has enabled dangerous driving behaviors – including speeding and driving impaired – to flourish. At the same time, roads are largely designed to prioritize fast-moving vehicle traffic…

> I think the pause on enforcement a lot of police departments did after the George Floyd protests is a contributing factor to that first point

Which is always a silly thing to read. George Floyd wasn't arrested because he flying 60 mph through red lights. It was over an alleged crime with maximum damages of $20; it's not even comparable to the violations being let slide.

Re: U.S. to require automatic emergency braking on new vehicles in 5 years

#105

Post by CivBase »

dotnet00 wrote: post #89
matthewfelgate wrote: post #57

Why are people commenting on Hacker News so negative? This is a progressive, good idea. It will save 24,000 injuries a year. I think if Hacker News was around when seat-belts were invented there would be some looney tunes claiming it's an abuse of first amendment rights or some rubbish. The next thing should be mandatory lane keeping.

It's the current HN culture to whine about all technology, especially if it isn't impossibly perfect.

To be fair, the reliability threshold had better be extremely high for systems controlling a 2 ton box going 120 km/hr surrounded by other boxes of similar velocity. There's plenty of room for reasonable discourse about where exactly that threshold should be. I suspect most of us (myself included) are also probably not familiar with how reliable modern iterations of this technology are.

Re: U.S. to require automatic emergency braking on new vehicles in 5 years

#106

Post by grobbyy »

foxyv wrote: post #88

There is one safety feature that would universally make cars safer and not require radar or computers. Just simple speed governors based on geo-fencing and radio speed limit signs. It would be trivially easy to install on existing vehicles and much less expensive on new vehicles. In addition it would increase pedestrian safety by leaps and bounds. We do it for electric bicycles and scooters. Why not cars?

Because it would make roads less safe.

It's very common to need to *accelerate* in emergency situations.

Something like smart cruise control which drives the speed limit would be appreciated. A hard cap would not.

Re: U.S. to require automatic emergency braking on new vehicles in 5 years

#107

Post by jncfhnb »

grobbyy wrote: post #106
foxyv wrote: post #88

There is one safety feature that would universally make cars safer and not require radar or computers. Just simple speed governors based on geo-fencing and radio speed limit signs. It would be trivially easy to install on existing vehicles and much less expensive on new vehicles. In addition it would increase pedestrian safety by leaps and bounds. We do it for electric bicycles and scooters. Why not cars?

Because it would make roads less safe. It's very common to need to *accelerate* in emergency situations. Something like smart cruise control which drives the speed limit would be appreciated. A hard cap would not.

Like when

Re: U.S. to require automatic emergency braking on new vehicles in 5 years

#108

Post by HeWhoLurksLate »

RIMR wrote: post #93
foxyv wrote: post #88

There is one safety feature that would universally make cars safer and not require radar or computers. Just simple speed governors based on geo-fencing and radio speed limit signs. It would be trivially easy to install on existing vehicles and much less expensive on new vehicles. In addition it would increase pedestrian safety by leaps and bounds. We do it for electric bicycles and scooters. Why not cars?

The first thing I hear people argue against is their "freedom" to drive their car without the government telling them what they can and cannot do. But you already don't have the freedom to drive as fast as you want, and the current enforcement system is to come face-to-face with a cop. I, personally, would prefer a system where my car physically will not allow me to drive over the speed limit. The problem though is t…

More speed can also be safer in some scenarios

Re: U.S. to require automatic emergency braking on new vehicles in 5 years

#109

Post by grobbyy »

spankalee wrote: post #87
pjc50 wrote: post #12

All this technology has the effect of pushing up the cost of vehicles, often for questionable minor safety improvements. Is there a good analysis of why the road safety trend has gone the wrong way in the US lately?

Pushing up the cost of cars is good. They're damaging to the environment, people, and our infrastructure. The minimum we can be doing right now is to lower the safety risk and emissions of them.

No. It's not. Pushing down car ownership might be good, but not based on wealth. Priority should go to elderly, people with disabilities, people with kids, etc.

Even so, the goal shouldn't be fewer cars but less miles driven.

The kind of antagonistic approach you prescribe rarely leads to good policy.

Re: U.S. to require automatic emergency braking on new vehicles in 5 years

#110

Post by foxyv »

lesuorac wrote: post #91
foxyv wrote: post #88

There is one safety feature that would universally make cars safer and not require radar or computers. Just simple speed governors based on geo-fencing and radio speed limit signs. It would be trivially easy to install on existing vehicles and much less expensive on new vehicles. In addition it would increase pedestrian safety by leaps and bounds. We do it for electric bicycles and scooters. Why not cars?

Judging by how my car shows a speed limit change from 55 to 25 as I go under bridges that could get real dangerous real fast if there's a poor implementation. Aren't all the scooters just a flat 20/25 mph cap with no dynamic changing? I think drones are the things you're looking for where they avoid flying near airfields.

Most rental scooters are geo-fenced so people don't zip around walking paths at 20+mph.

Edit: Here is a quick link https://www.li.me/blog/lime-introduces-new-geofencing-techno...

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