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Run0, a systemd based alternative to sudo, announced

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Re: Run0, a systemd based alternative to sudo, announced

#331

Post by cogman10 »

tapoxi wrote: post #324
cogman10 wrote: post #319

Earlier quoted context omitted.

The important thing for me at least isn't he `-u apache` but rather knowing that `apache` exists as one of the installed services on this box. In the old ways, that was apparent because of the presence of the log file. Granted, this isn't the problem it used to be for us, however, it would come up because we'd have our services named things like `foo-ws` and knowing that `foo-ws` existed on a given box might be trick…

I mean "systemctl status" shows all services and their hierarchy, there's also "systemctl list-unit-files" if you want to see things that aren't part of the current target (runlevel). It's much easier in the systemd world to see the state of the system, the state of the service, and the logs of a service because it enforces this consistency.

Ah, good to know. I figured it might be the case that I just needed to RTFM.

Re: Run0, a systemd based alternative to sudo, announced

#333

Post by akira2501 »

agwa wrote: post #301
abridgett wrote: post #178

I'm not sure it can replace non-trivial setups - sudo/doas looks set to stay. e.g when you need to restrict a set of users to run only certain applications with certain other users. sudo can do this (even if the config format can be painful).

Good news! run0 will use polkit[1], which uses JavaScript for its rules[2], so there's no limit to how complex your rules can get! On the other hand, maybe adding a JavaScript interpreter to Linux's trusted computing base isn't good news... [1] https://mastodon.social/@pid_eins/112353420303876549 [2] https://www.freedesktop.org/software/polkit/docs/latest/polk...

If the lesson of xz was "reduce supply chain attack surface" then the freedesktop people clearly haven't received it yet.

Re: Run0, a systemd based alternative to sudo, announced

#335

Post by TZubiri »

airocker wrote: post #310

I have seldom come across unix multiuser environments getting used anymore for servers. Its generally just one user on one physical machine now a days. I understand run0's promise is still useful but i would really like to see the whole unix permission system simplified for just one user who has sudo access.

access management is usually delegated to other systems that supervise UNIX, like AWS

Re: Run0, a systemd based alternative to sudo, announced

#336

Post by gnufx »

airocker wrote: post #310

I have seldom come across unix multiuser environments getting used anymore for servers. Its generally just one user on one physical machine now a days. I understand run0's promise is still useful but i would really like to see the whole unix permission system simplified for just one user who has sudo access.

Visit the research computing environment sometime, for instance. The libzma SSH compromise was considered very worrying, after all.

Re: Run0, a systemd based alternative to sudo, announced

#337

Post by dsr_ »

zamadatix wrote: post #305
Karellen wrote: post #175

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> I also wasn't a fan of the tinting. From the linked mastodon thread: > For example, by default it will tint your terminal background in a reddish tone while you are operating with elevated privileges. That is supposed to act as a friendly reminder that you haven't given up the privileges yet, and marks the output of all commands that ran with privileges appropriately. (If you don't like this, you can easily turn it…

I think it's more that the default seems backwards than the lack of ability to change it.

It's three things:

* here is a feature which we are defaulting to on

* there's no persistent config for it

* we know better than you do about your preferences

Re: Run0, a systemd based alternative to sudo, announced

#338

Post by sunshowers »

agilob wrote: post #230
kbar13 wrote: post #45

systemd has been a net positive for the linux ecosystem. remember when you had to write bash scripts to start, stop, restart services and handle any other signals you want to send it? nowadays it's a unit file (basically just an ini file) away with relatively straightforward API. and you can actually declare startup dependencies and other useful relationships past just "prepend a number signifying when it should run…

> remember when you had to write bash scripts to start, stop, restart services This was a really big pain, yes, but I also remember how I could `tail -f *.logs`. I remember how I didn't need to remember about `--no-pager` and `--follow`. I knew where the files were, what they were called. I remember how I didn't have to google how to find logs between 10 days ago and 4 days ago, because the logs would be in a .tar cr…

I've recently become a fan of the `-x` flag to journalctl, which adds additional context to log entries and even suggests remediations at times. I've identified and fixed several issues on my Linux systems that way. Kind of hard to get that with tail -f!

Re: Run0, a systemd based alternative to sudo, announced

#339

Post by TZubiri »

bityard wrote: post #293
fn-mote wrote: post #152

Overall, this seems great. However... > [...] by default it will tint your terminal background in a reddish tone while you are operating with elevated privileges ?!! ouch ... seems orthogonal to the actual important parts. Disclaimer: I didn't try it.

This is a perfect example of a choice that a developer makes to suit his/her personal preference and environment, believing that everyone does (or should) use their computer the same way. Which is sadly becoming a more common trend. I like the idea, but I don't think it should be on by default. The rest of us have just used root-specific shell prompts for the last few decades or so.

It's fine.

Not every software needs to be infinitely configurable and open source just in case the configurations don't cover the needs of all.

We need opinionated software, if you don't want to make any choice for me, you can't even give me an assembly editor for fear of forcing your CPU arch of choice.

Re: Run0, a systemd based alternative to sudo, announced

#340

Post by airocker »

TZubiri wrote: post #335
airocker wrote: post #310

I have seldom come across unix multiuser environments getting used anymore for servers. Its generally just one user on one physical machine now a days. I understand run0's promise is still useful but i would really like to see the whole unix permission system simplified for just one user who has sudo access.

access management is usually delegated to other systems that supervise UNIX, like AWS

Or Kubernetes. Thats where a standard way of authentication/authorization should be there.
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