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Webb captures iconic Horsehead Nebula in unprecedented detail

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Re: Webb captures iconic Horsehead Nebula in unprecedented detail

#201
I am reminded of David’s song in Psalm 19 … It’s amazing to me how in the thousands of years since he wrote these words, we’ve still only scratched the surface of observing the beauty and depth of creation.

The heavens declare the glory of God; the skies proclaim the work of his hands. Day after day they pour forth speech; night after night they reveal knowledge. They have no speech, they use no words; no sound is heard from them. Yet their voice goes out into all the earth, their words to the ends of the world.

Re: Webb captures iconic Horsehead Nebula in unprecedented detail

#202
post #188

Earlier quoted context omitted.

No. A normal visible light telescope absolutely shows color. You can just point a DSLR with a zoom lens and no filters at the sky, take a picture of M42, and confirm that yourself.

I'm sorry, but the last time I checked a DSLR is not my eye. I have plenty of images from my telescope and various cameras. How you can conflate the 2 is beyond me. Comparing a long exposure from a digital sensor to what your eye can see is beyond bonkers and confusion of the topic at hand, or right in front of our eyes to keep it on subject

Maybe I misread your statement "Using a telescope to look at things, one only sees a black and white image". Certainly you can see color when looking at planets (mars, jupiter, saturn). But more importantly: you can see M42 in color with a telescope and eyes, it doesn't need to be a camera or film. If your point is that it's hard for your retina to detect a rich color spectrum from distant objects without either magnification or time-averaging, sure, but that's not how your comment reads.

Before you jump to "bonkers" maybe give the people you reply to some credit- I'm an amateur astronomer with facts at his disposal.

Re: Webb captures iconic Horsehead Nebula in unprecedented detail

#203

Absolutely incredible. For a little bit of context for how impressive this is, here's my take on it with a consumer grade 8" Newtonian telescope from my backyard: https://www.astrobin.com/full/w4tjwt/0/

Amazing shot! Lots of good stuff, really liked this full moon shot https://www.astrobin.com/w0lzn5/B/ - the color!

Re: Webb captures iconic Horsehead Nebula in unprecedented detail

#204

Absolutely incredible. For a little bit of context for how impressive this is, here's my take on it with a consumer grade 8" Newtonian telescope from my backyard: https://www.astrobin.com/full/w4tjwt/0/

Yours is a superb image, too. Very impressive indeed. Kudos!

Re: Webb captures iconic Horsehead Nebula in unprecedented detail

#205
post #202

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I'm sorry, but the last time I checked a DSLR is not my eye. I have plenty of images from my telescope and various cameras. How you can conflate the 2 is beyond me. Comparing a long exposure from a digital sensor to what your eye can see is beyond bonkers and confusion of the topic at hand, or right in front of our eyes to keep it on subject

Maybe I misread your statement "Using a telescope to look at things, one only sees a black and white image". Certainly you can see color when looking at planets (mars, jupiter, saturn). But more importantly: you can see M42 in color with a telescope and eyes, it doesn't need to be a camera or film. If your point is that it's hard for your retina to detect a rich color spectrum from distant objects without either magn…

> Before you jump to "bonkers" maybe give the people you reply to some credit- I'm an amateur astronomer with facts at his disposal.

As am I, and any time I use an eye piece, it is nothing but b&w for DSOs even for something as bright as Orion's Nebula. The spirit of the conversation is if people can see the true color the way images from large telescopes posted in articles like this. They cannot. You take the reaction from the average person that has only seen processed images after looking through a telescope for the first time, and they will almost always have a bit of disappointment in their voice. I have taken my scope to rooftop bars and let patrons look through at whatever can be seen at the time. I have yet to do this and not meet someone that's never looked through a telescope with their own eyes--which is the point of my effort.

Re: Webb captures iconic Horsehead Nebula in unprecedented detail

#206

When I look at these images I instantly and fully understand why we are interested in the universe. It is such an incredibly thing. Absolutely astonishing.

For this to exist and me shunting JavaScript around from place to place.. whats the point?

[dead]

Re: Webb captures iconic Horsehead Nebula in unprecedented detail

#207

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Buddhism is deeply rooted in reincarnation and the progression of a common person to an enlightened being through different ranks over the span of multiple lifetimes. I am pretty sure there is a dimension of life that we have yet to discover and learn about. And for the time being Buddhism is the only “religion” that openly discusses this progression. Hinduism has the same but in my experience it’s a lot more reserve…

I think any view of life consistent with its emergence by evolution isn't consistent with reincarnation, or certainly doesn't support it. But given the universe in total may be unimaginably larger than our observable universe, and the total universe may well be an insignificant feature of an unimaginably larger reality, its quite possible that versions of us appear in a fractal-like way, over and over across reality.…

> Although they sensibly tend to focus on interpretation at the particle level, avoiding the hype and wishful mysticism that would tend to crop up around its implications for us as individuals.

Is this yet another one of those scientific facts that does not require a proof?

> Too many imaginative people and popularizers have a tendency to jump from actual equations/constraints they don't understand, to non-scientific psychologically motivated "implications" and ideologies.

Similarly, too many imaginative people who lack adequate depth in epistemology and non-binary logic like to practice both on the internet as if they know what they're doing. And the beauty of it is: if the minds of the population have been adequately conditioned, no one notices.

But wait, there's even more Oracle level soothsaying of the unknowable below:

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My response is staying with science, which just means staying with evidence and reasoning that avoids our unbounded ability to fool ourselves. I.e. repeatable experiments by others, tested model predictions, mathematical and statistical checks, etc.

That is all science and math are. An accumulation of tools and systems that improve the reliability of our thinking. They increasingly help us mitigate our exceptional talent for fooling ourselves.

If we find another way to "know", it will get included into science too.

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I'm sorry to be such a party pooper, but when religious or mystical people make epistemically unsound claims, the knives almost always come out for them, a little in the opposite direction shouldn't hurt too much. And besides: "science" claims to welcome criticism, much like religious people claim to follow their scriptures. But then, who doesn't like to have their cake and eat it too?

Re: Webb captures iconic Horsehead Nebula in unprecedented detail

#208
post #202

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Maybe I misread your statement "Using a telescope to look at things, one only sees a black and white image". Certainly you can see color when looking at planets (mars, jupiter, saturn). But more importantly: you can see M42 in color with a telescope and eyes, it doesn't need to be a camera or film. If your point is that it's hard for your retina to detect a rich color spectrum from distant objects without either magn…

> Before you jump to "bonkers" maybe give the people you reply to some credit- I'm an amateur astronomer with facts at his disposal. As am I, and any time I use an eye piece, it is nothing but b&w for DSOs even for something as bright as Orion's Nebula. The spirit of the conversation is if people can see the true color the way images from large telescopes posted in articles like this. They cannot. You take the reacti…

I understand. The way you wrote it it sounded like you were implying that the scope itself strips the color spectrum ("black and white") when really it's just the light is so faint that our cones don't really register color while our rods can easily register bright white light. (i work with weird people who don't like false color and instead look at the image as a series of monochromatic filtered images because you can see more detail that way)

For demonstration, I always attach a DSLR to prime focus and display Live View.

Re: Webb captures iconic Horsehead Nebula in unprecedented detail

#209
post #180

Earlier quoted context omitted.

But that's it. Life doesn't seem so unlikely, does it? There are things we still don't understand about it, but we understand some, and it's not magic. It can happen, given the right conditions, much like mold may grow on a piece of bread under the right conditions. What's difficult to comprehend is the immense vastness of the universe. It seems unlikely that nowhere else did the preconditions for life arise, and in…

> There are things we still don't understand about it, but we understand some, and it's not magic. > What's difficult to comprehend is the immense vastness of the universe. We know a whole lot about ways life changes once it's there but we haven't observed life emerging from non-life and our hypotheses for how life emerged on earth has more holes than swiss cheese and it doesn't have to be magic in order to be exceed…

True, we cannot determine the scenario.

> but we haven't observed life emerging from non-life

But our laboratory is very, very small, so that proves little.

And we know life emerged at least once, and it doesn't seem particularly improbable. That's what I mean by "not magic"; not that we understand every little step, but we have some idea.

I don't think it's scifi to believe it's unlikely only Earth has sparked life. The one thing that is unlikely is that we will ever witness life anywhere else, but that's a different problem.

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