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Principles for Keyboard Layouts (2022)

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Re: Principles for Keyboard Layouts (2022)

#51

Post by aendruk »

bloopernova wrote: post #7

I would like to see something that records your keystrokes and gives you stats on what you type the most. Then spits out a keyboard arrangement to start from. Not sure how you'd get around it being a huge security risk? Maybe only write totals for keypresses every 30 minutes? Edited to add: Does anyone daily-drive a Keyboardio Model 100? I really liked the concept and participated in the kickstarter, but unfortunatel…

I’ve been tinkering with some ideas around this based on the Halmak project [1] which used a genetic algorithm to choose the layout. Some day I’ll do a writeup about it.

[1] https://web.archive.org/web/20200220112444/http://nikolay.ro...

Re: Principles for Keyboard Layouts (2022)

#52

Post by Adverblessly »

samatman wrote: post #48
Adverblessly wrote: post #31

Here are my personal principals: 1. Don't use too many thumb buttons, especially at odd angles, they just make my thumbs hurt after too much typing. 2. Don't use layers for any frequently used buttons, having to keep a button held for a while frequently just leads to more pain. 3. Function keys are mandatory. They aren't used frequently enough that having them in a "far" location is a problem, but when I do use them…

I love thumb clusters. But I have large hands. The great thing about the Cambrian explosion of mechanical keyboards is that people can find a layout which works for them, mentally and physiologically.

I have large hands as well (and proportionally long thumbs as well I think). I think it is just that my thumbs don't really "like" the rotations required to reach all the keys in the cluster. It also doesn't help that pressing with the thumb ends up being a "sideways" press, which is not a natural direction for the thumb to go.

Re: Principles for Keyboard Layouts (2022)

#53

Post by chrishill89 »

I’ve made my own software keyboard using Xkb (Linux). Based on a standard (ISO/European) keyboard. It’s qwerty but I’ve made changes in order to (first motivation) more easily be able to write all kinds of symbols. So the number row is repurposed to providing keys like Shift, level 3 (after shift), level 4, and level 5. On both sides. For example shift is `4` and `8`.

- Shift: normal

- Level 3: mostly symbols

- Level 4: numpad on the home row (since I’ve repurposed the number row)

- Level 5: less used symbols

Also on the number row:

- Ctrl+V

- Ctrl+Insert (Linux: paste primary selection)

- Menu

- Compose key (both sides)

- Lock shift (Caps Lock leaves keys like `.` alone but this one locks to Shift for all keys)

In addition to the compose key I’ve mapped several unused keysyms (like Kanji) to map to various symbols and expansions. There I mostly use `key + + ` where I can press `` and `` in any order (meaning two compose sequences for each). So I can press the initial key and then just mash the two others and get what I want. Those Kanji symbols are mapped to some fringe (to the sides) keys that I don’t need anymore because they’re on level 3.

It’s derived from my regional keyboard (Norwegian) but it could be modified to work with the standard US layout.

I’ve had some troubles with it after Ubuntu 22.04/Gnome 3. Now it only works in most applications. But not certain others like gnome-terminal. It seems to be because of the X/Wayland split. So there are some painpoints that I haven’t ironed out yet. And I’m not eager to start since debugging Xkb can be painful and non-obvious.

Re: Principles for Keyboard Layouts (2022)

#54

Post by 2024throwaway »

MSFT_Edging wrote: post #34
francis-io wrote: post #26

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Wouldn't a small script that lets you toggle between a QWERTY layout and a custom layout solve this problem?

Only if it's someone using your machine, rather than you using another's machine and re-adjusting to querty.

My top menu bar has a toggle to switch layouts, so anyone can use my machine. I can also still type QWERTY, so I can use any other machine. These are non-problems.

Re: Principles for Keyboard Layouts (2022)

#55

Post by tapia »

inawarminister wrote: post #15

I like to write Clojure, and getting away from home row to write the parentheses was... annoying. I did try (and my fingers still remember!) Colemak a few years back, though. I found Neo2, which is a German keyboard layout with 5-6 layers of keys (which is ironic since I don't actually... speak German). Tried Neo2 vanilla and Bone/other layout, but nowadays I'm just using QWERTZ + Neo2 layers, which is available for…

I started using noted (also a variant of neo2) [1] and I love it. I did change some things in the Layer 4 (mostly placed the numbers on the left hand and arrows arranged in-line, similar to vim). I really like how it works. I'm using a split keyboard, specifically the Lily58.

[1] https://neo-layout.org/Layouts/noted/

Re: Principles for Keyboard Layouts (2022)

#56

Post by ivanjermakov »

Symmetry wrote: post #6

Interesting, but I think if I were to re-learn touch typing I'd go all the way and move to a chording keyboard. https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Chorded_keyboard

Chording is efficient if you soley write text. It doesn't fit for text editing and writing text with lots of punctuation (code).

Re: Principles for Keyboard Layouts (2022)

#58

Post by ykonstant »

benji-york wrote: post #44

Something I don't see in keyboard layouts often is mouse buttons. I use a trackball between my keyboard halves and prefer using mouse buttons on my left hand while moving the trackball with the right. https://imgur.com/Eac4PVL

An embedded trackball/buttons at the sides of a split keyboard like the Advantage 360 would be great. But my bigger issue with that is that I would like the thumb cluster itself to be on the sides, towards which the thumb curves naturally.

Re: Principles for Keyboard Layouts (2022)

#59

Post by smartmic »

inawarminister wrote: post #15

I like to write Clojure, and getting away from home row to write the parentheses was... annoying. I did try (and my fingers still remember!) Colemak a few years back, though. I found Neo2, which is a German keyboard layout with 5-6 layers of keys (which is ironic since I don't actually... speak German). Tried Neo2 vanilla and Bone/other layout, but nowadays I'm just using QWERTZ + Neo2 layers, which is available for…

I am also a Neo2 user for years and do not even think of changing back to QWERTZ. The community is quite active and spits out new, optimized layouts from time to time. They have their own tools for analyzing and optimization. Some background here (in German, use your translator): https://maximilian-schillinger.de/keyboard-layouts-neo-adnw-...

Re: Principles for Keyboard Layouts (2022)

#60

Post by inawarminister »

smartmic wrote: post #59
inawarminister wrote: post #15

I like to write Clojure, and getting away from home row to write the parentheses was... annoying. I did try (and my fingers still remember!) Colemak a few years back, though. I found Neo2, which is a German keyboard layout with 5-6 layers of keys (which is ironic since I don't actually... speak German). Tried Neo2 vanilla and Bone/other layout, but nowadays I'm just using QWERTZ + Neo2 layers, which is available for…

I am also a Neo2 user for years and do not even think of changing back to QWERTZ. The community is quite active and spits out new, optimized layouts from time to time. They have their own tools for analyzing and optimization. Some background here (in German, use your translator): https://maximilian-schillinger.de/keyboard-layouts-neo-adnw-...

Thanks! The comparison table is really enlightening. I think I'll try hacking up Colemak first with layer 3-6, but if I can't make it I'll try habituating with KOY layout.
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