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How to prevent Lyme disease this summer

news.harvard.edu

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Re: How to prevent Lyme disease this summer

#111

Post by huytersd »

01HNNWZ0MV43FF wrote: post #61
huytersd wrote: post #7

Just go to your PCP and get your one time course of 2 doxycycline pills as soon as you get bitten. I also spray my hiking/yardwork pants and boots with permethrin. DEET is pretty useless, I’ve seen them walk right over DEET sprayed boots onto my pants. They make it about 5 steps through permethrin. I’m surprised advise from Harvard is getting this wrong. If you want even more protection, you can buy stocking like sla…

You can get into your PCP in less than a week?

Yes but I’ve also used one of the plethora of telehealth systems before that will let you speak to a doctor within a hour and you can pick up your prescription in two.

Re: How to prevent Lyme disease this summer

#112

Post by Too »

thepasswordis wrote: post #79
switch007 wrote: post #55

I got Lyme when I was 26 (in an area with it, after handling an animal famous for ticks). GP refused to believe Lyme could be a possibility. Eventually got a test (probably an inferior one, knowing our health service), which came back negative. But I had a bullseye rash, flu-like symptoms etc. I'm convinced I had it. I wasn't prescribed antibiotics because the test was negative The 2 years following I had bad muscles…

I cannot understand why you wouldn’t get antibiotics. What possible risk could your doctor be imagining that would come from you taking antibiotics? Our approach to medicine is so depressing.

Not handing out antibiotics left and right is a way to counter antimicrobial resistance, a serious threat to the bigger population if gone out of control.

It should only be used when absolutely needed. Seeing how casually some use it is quite shocking. Lyme is serious and should of course be treated if it’s identified as such.

Re: How to prevent Lyme disease this summer

#113

Post by giantg2 »

mindslight wrote: post #104
giantg2 wrote: post #103

Earlier quoted context omitted.

"eg the tick could have been on me all day" Well, that's a problem. If it's only been one day, they aren't going to give it to you. It's only supposed to be past 72 hours. Of course they're not going to listen and they'll argue if you're pushing something beyond the guidelines. If you frame it differently, like you don't know if it's been on there for days, then they're more likely to work with you. I've actually had…

My griping was more about the medical system in general. My one experience of going to the doctor for a tick was actually pretty good (my primary care doctor, who suffers from the standard push you out the door after 10 minutes and can't you go to the ER instead, but has otherwise been pretty agreeable). I think I told them I knew it was on me for at least 4 hours, but could have been 12, and they prescribed Doxycycl…

It's standard. Although in this publication they are going by engorgement. Doctors aren't that concerned with the details. It's unlikely they will get sued for prescribing doxycycline to a patient who doesn't have a known allergy to it, so why not.

https://www.cdc.gov/ticks/tickbornediseases/tick-bite-prophy...

https://www.cdc.gov/ticks/tickbornediseases/tick-bite-prophy...

Re: How to prevent Lyme disease this summer

#114

Post by effluvium »

chickenchase-rd wrote: post #42

in a pinch I rub black pepper or thyme (hopefully a fine powder) everywhere and on clothes.. (I think thyme tests higher as a repellant for ticks and BPepper for mosquitos). rub it between your hands to heat it a little to activate the oils inside and apply liberally. Just remember - do not do it casually at social situations and be wary of staining your clothes and triggering an alergic reaction on yourself.

Sounded like BS so I looked it up.

https://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pmc/articles/PMC9886999/

"Figure 1d and Supplemental Table S2 show the complete protection times (CPTs) measured using the EPA procedure (tick on-arm assay) for different formulations. The organic lotion base provided no protection from tick crossings. The 10% lotion formulations that provided the longest protection from tick crossings were cinnamon oil, clove oil, 2PEP, and geraniol with CPTs longer than one hour. The formulation with 10% thyme oil displayed a CPT of 55 min, while the rest of the formulations tested did not provide CPTs significantly different from the untreated and unscented lotion controls. Our positive control, 10% DEET in unscented lotion, provided protection for up to six hours, at which time we stopped the experiment."

Re: How to prevent Lyme disease this summer

#115

Post by zamadatix »

switch007 wrote: post #82
thepasswordis wrote: post #79

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I cannot understand why you wouldn’t get antibiotics. What possible risk could your doctor be imagining that would come from you taking antibiotics? Our approach to medicine is so depressing.

The primary objective of the NHS is to save money, it can seem. Therefore they create policies that reduce costs, write advice on nhs.uk that results in lower costs, restrict access to tests/drugs etc. I DO understand the arguments about excessive diagnostics, antibiotics etc - but they certainly hide behind those arguments _a lot_. Honestly it is so stressful and time-consuming to get anything other than a basic blo…

The price of (most first round antibiotics) is so low that it doesn't really make sense to avoid prescribing them from a cost avoidance perspective.

Re: How to prevent Lyme disease this summer

#116

Post by pridkett »

MichaelZuo wrote: post #80
jvanderbot wrote: post #74

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I suddenly had alopecia areata. If you don't want to Google it, there were coin-sized areas of my head spontaneously losing hair, starting with my beard. My GP said "this is not a health problem, if you want a fuller beard use rogain". I was embarrassed enough to go home and try to tough it out. Within 6 months the whole left side of my head was completely bare, except for splotchy outlines here and there. My right s…

Roughly half the doctors are below average and probably more than half of GPs are below average...

For a while I had a GP who did his med school in the Caribbean. He was fine. I knew he did it there.

During one exam he asked me where I did my grad school. I respond and reflexively ask him and his response was “Blah blah school of medicine in The Grenadines. But the guy who graduates last in his class there is still called ‘Doctor’”.

Re: How to prevent Lyme disease this summer

#117

Post by mindslight »

giantg2 wrote: post #113
mindslight wrote: post #104

Earlier quoted context omitted.

My griping was more about the medical system in general. My one experience of going to the doctor for a tick was actually pretty good (my primary care doctor, who suffers from the standard push you out the door after 10 minutes and can't you go to the ER instead, but has otherwise been pretty agreeable). I think I told them I knew it was on me for at least 4 hours, but could have been 12, and they prescribed Doxycycl…

It's standard. Although in this publication they are going by engorgement. Doctors aren't that concerned with the details. It's unlikely they will get sued for prescribing doxycycline to a patient who doesn't have a known allergy to it, so why not. https://www.cdc.gov/ticks/tickbornediseases/tick-bite-prophy... https://www.cdc.gov/ticks/tickbornediseases/tick-bite-prophy...

Is it really supposed to take 72 hours for a tick to begin feeding? The 72 hours in that link seems to be about whether it's within the window that prophylaxis would have an effect (although you seem to be acknowledging this?).

In my case the doc asked if the tick was engorged, to which I responded that I didn't know - I'm not a biologist that studies ticks and can't give such a judgement as a nice tidy answer. Which is getting back to my point about expectations - if the treatment was amputating my leg, then I'd want some professional judgement calls. But given that the output of the medical system was going to be either (doxycycline and blood draw for lab, or nothing), I'm going to push towards the former option given the lack of expected harm and overall lack of attention outside of these scarce 10 minute visits.

FWIW I think I got a full course of doxycycline, perhaps just to avoid breeding antibiotic resistant bacteria rather than for the tick bite itself.

Re: How to prevent Lyme disease this summer

#118

Post by rpmisms »

halfmatthalfcat wrote: post #83
rpmisms wrote: post #30

I'm incredibly fortunate to have never had a tick bite, but my wife has and got Lyme. Don't fuck around, go get the antibiotics immediately. If your doctor doesn't believe you, write a formal complaint to their board after finding another doctor.

I’m going to find a doctor to confirm to my diagnosis and try to get every doctor who disagrees with me reprimanded or fired along the way!

I'm going to find a doctor who will admit a real disease exists and actually consider it as a possibility. Many don't, and it's irresponsible. Report irresponsible doctors. They aren't hurting for cash.

Re: How to prevent Lyme disease this summer

#119

Post by underbooter »

xorcist wrote: post #108
huytersd wrote: post #85

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Getting antibiotics maybe once a year is not excessive. Please stop being hyperbolic, I’m well aware of MRSAs and do my best to take them sparingly. Where I live between 50-70% of the deer ticks have Lyme disease so it’s not overkill.

This was in reference to after every bite, not once a year. Antibiotic resistance is not hyperbole. It is a real problem, and potentially a big one. What would be hyperbolic is if the part of the world that lives in tick infested regions would be pretty much on a constant antibiotic binge during season. A full dose is two weeks and you are likely to be bitten again. I don't know if the suggestion was in reference to…

By far the weirdest thing to me in this entire thread, as someone who had long-term Lyme disease, is the dudes bragging about how often they remove ticks from themselves and their children, yet who are more scared of antibiotic resistance the Lyme.

Simply does not compute. Do you, like, get off on risking contracting infectious disease? I feel bad for your children.

Re: How to prevent Lyme disease this summer

#120

Post by underbooter »

keepamovin wrote: post #21
huytersd wrote: post #7

Just go to your PCP and get your one time course of 2 doxycycline pills as soon as you get bitten. I also spray my hiking/yardwork pants and boots with permethrin. DEET is pretty useless, I’ve seen them walk right over DEET sprayed boots onto my pants. They make it about 5 steps through permethrin. I’m surprised advise from Harvard is getting this wrong. If you want even more protection, you can buy stocking like sla…

Ah faithful doxycycline, a legitimate cureall. Well tolerated, cheap, with few side effects when used sparingly.

Just watch out for the vomiting.
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